An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

**jmount78** · 03-29-2012, 01:11 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Manny, wanted to know if you will have an opinion like this when you get 12? Looks like it will be PYS 11 for me as I had my wife convinced of letting me get PYS 12 until I told her the price

Everyone on this board has convinced me to get into the PYS series.

**Manny_Shevitz** · 03-29-2012, 01:25 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Originally posted by jmount78

Manny, wanted to know if you will have an opinion like this when you get 12? Looks like it will be PYS 11 for me as I had my wife convinced of letting me get PYS 12 until I told her the price

Everyone on this board has convinced me to get into the PYS series.

I guess we'll see. Hopefully I'll be getting 12 in the mail sometime next week. But the early impressions I've been reading seem to be mostly positive. I have also watched some live streams of 12 in action, and the graphics don't seem to be much different from 11, not that that's a bad thing. It's hard to tell from low res streaming video, but the overall crispness of the player models seems better, and I've seen a few new animations.

Honestly, if you are new to Japanese baseball and PYS, I'm sure you will be just as happy with 11. I'm a sucker for getting the latest version of a game that's available, but the truth is, I don't follow Japanese baseball closely enough for the new rosters to make much difference to me. Hopefully there will be enough little gameplay and presentation tweaks to make 12 feel somewhat fresh and new for me.

**tvman** · 03-29-2012, 02:26 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Originally posted by jmount78

Manny, wanted to know if you will have an opinion like this when you get 12? Looks like it will be PYS 11 for me as I had my wife convinced of letting me get PYS 12 until I told her the price

Everyone on this board has convinced me to get into the PYS series.

Nothing wrong with getting a year old game, heck i play some that are 6-7 years old.

Who knows you may not even like the game but if you really do you can likely pick up 12 some time later in the year for a much reduced price.

**gigadkc** · 03-30-2012, 08:17 AM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Originally posted by tvman

Nothing wrong with getting a year old game, heck i play some that are 6-7 years old...

true. I'm still playing PYS 2010 and it's still a lot of fun. I skipped 2011 but I'll buy the 2012 version again once I can get it a bit cheaper on ebay but buying an old version is something I would recommend to everyone who hasn't played PYS yet. That way you don't throw a lot of cash out of the window in the very unlikely case that you don't like the game

**Pared** · 03-30-2012, 08:59 AM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Originally posted by Manny_Shevitz

In fact, before deciding whether or not to purchase a sports game, I will usually go to the OS sliders forum for that game and see how many different slider sets have been posted. The more I see, the less likely I am to buy that game. You see, I have this crazy notion that it is the game developers' job to make sure their gameplay is balanced and realistic. So whenever I read a post that says something along the lines of "You can get this game to play a pretty realistic game of baseball/football/hockey/etc. with THIS slider set," that translates in my head as "This game, out of the box, is broken."

Now I know there are a lot of people who would disagree with me.

To be completely honest with you, out of the box The Show on All Star is one of the most balanced baseball games I have played. I see complaints by people saying "too many *blanks*" or "change this to have more realistic play" in the forums. I guarantee you that these things are NOT necessary to have the balance I've seen. In fact, this is what all developers should strive for. Most of the changes are just, in fact, personal preferences. That does not in any way indicate an imbalance in the game.

PYS, if it were more popular, would CERTAINLY have its fair share of complaints about too many ground balls, the CPU is too hard to strike out, etc., etc. There would be a clamor for sliders... and thus, complaints that the sliders are not as effective or there need to be others.

Many playing The Show don't even realize that its customization is a curse. While it allows lesser skilled gamers to slow down pitch speed and induce more errors, it also lends to individuals breaking the balance of the game that already exists.

So, to summarize my point, the inclusion of sliders isn't a crutch by any means. At times it can be a blessing in disguise.... as well as a curse. But I would say it's inexcusable for a sports game not to have SOME customization at this point, just like they should have online play, updated rosters, etc.

**NotoriousReignz** · 03-30-2012, 09:08 AM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I disagree, The Show 12 on All-Star is too easy to pitch, and too hard to hit. The wind is broken, too many errors.

In PYS 11, it's fairly easy to strike out the CPU, especially with a good pitcher. There's a lot of ground balls because it is harder to hit, but there was a lot less power in the league overall last year.

**Pared** · 03-30-2012, 11:05 AM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Those items really have nothing to do with balance. If you say it's "too easy" then that is why there are difficulty levels.

Wind being "broken" has nothing to do with balance.

"Too many errors" are subjective as again, this is determined on your other settings.

The rest of your post is just rationalizing issues for PYS that I didn't even mention existed. Proves my point perfectly, actually.

**Manny_Shevitz** · 03-30-2012, 11:50 AM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Originally posted by Pared

To be completely honest with you, out of the box The Show on All Star is one of the most balanced baseball games I have played. I see complaints by people saying "too many *blanks*" or "change this to have more realistic play" in the forums. I guarantee you that these things are NOT necessary to have the balance I've seen. In fact, this is what all developers should strive for. Most of the changes are just, in fact, personal preferences. That does not in any way indicate an imbalance in the game.

PYS, if it were more popular, would CERTAINLY have its fair share of complaints about too many ground balls, the CPU is too hard to strike out, etc., etc. There would be a clamor for sliders... and thus, complaints that the sliders are not as effective or there need to be others.

Many playing The Show don't even realize that its customization is a curse. While it allows lesser skilled gamers to slow down pitch speed and induce more errors, it also lends to individuals breaking the balance of the game that already exists.

So, to summarize my point, the inclusion of sliders isn't a crutch by any means. At times it can be a blessing in disguise.... as well as a curse. But I would say it's inexcusable for a sports game not to have SOME customization at this point, just like they should have online play, updated rosters, etc.

I agree with you about customization being both a curse and, at times, a blessing. And I definitely need to spend more time with The Show 12. I haven't had a chance to play that many games, but I've been playing on Veteran difficulty with the pitch speed slider down to 2. That is the one slider that I am thankful for on The Show, because I find the default pitch speed too fast, and there's nothing ambiguous with that slider. I know exactly what it's doing.

And you're right about PYS. Muka, who runs the Spiritstranslation site, has said in the past that gamers on the Japanese forums b**** about little things in PYS all the time, but I don't think they're asking for sliders. PYS offers plenty of customization, it just takes a different approach than The Show. And I think it does so in a way that avoids the problem you mention of the player being able to break the balance of the game.

**Manny_Shevitz** · 03-30-2012, 12:09 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Oh, and I know you were probably just citing a hypothetical example, but Notorious is right. It is pretty easy to strike out the CPU with your ace pitchers. But not too easy.

**NotoriousReignz** · 03-30-2012, 12:29 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I read from a Russell_SCEA post that would should probably turn wind down to 0, because it doesn't work correctly. At the default setting, there are too many errors, many guys in our league agree to this. On All-Star level, timing for hitting should be a lot slower, it is off-balanced, and doesn't feel like the way it did in years past.

PYS is popular in Japan, just not in the US obviously. The hitting "issues" in PYS also represented the power issues in NPB. The ball settings changed in PYS, and the ball used in NPB changed. I know you were giving a hypothetical example, but there is a reason why PYS plays the way it does. Japanese baseball is different from MLB, and some US gamers probably wouldn't understand that by just playing the game a couple of times. Trust me though, I love both games, and love being able to play 3 different baseball this year.

**Pared** · 03-30-2012, 01:45 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Originally posted by Manny_Shevitz

And you're right about PYS. Muka, who runs the Spiritstranslation site, has said in the past that gamers on the Japanese forums b**** about little things in PYS all the time, but I don't think they're asking for sliders. PYS offers plenty of customization, it just takes a different approach than The Show. And I think it does so in a way that avoids the problem you mention of the player being able to break the balance of the game.

I have yet to see any game do this, even the old Winning Eleven series.

Originally posted by NotoriousReignz

I read from a Russell_SCEA post that would should probably turn wind down to 0, because it doesn't work correctly. At the default setting, there are too many errors, many guys in our league agree to this. On All-Star level, timing for hitting should be a lot slower, it is off-balanced, and doesn't feel like the way it did in years past.

PYS is popular in Japan, just not in the US obviously. The hitting "issues" in PYS also represented the power issues in NPB. The ball settings changed in PYS, and the ball used in NPB changed. I know you were giving a hypothetical example, but there is a reason why PYS plays the way it does. Japanese baseball is different from MLB, and some US gamers probably wouldn't understand that by just playing the game a couple of times. Trust me though, I love both games, and love being able to play 3 different baseball this year.

All subjective. There are plenty that would disagree with those statements. Again, the balance is there. You can't have it both ways - you either want control or you don't want control. If a game allows you to cause errors, then it's up to the user to learn how to play the game - you can't blame the game when you are the one making the error. And this goes for any game.

And again - I'm not pointing to any specific "issues" with PYS. I find the responses funny as I literally just made up something that would be a common complaint no matter the game and your response is no different than it would be for some when discussing any game. I literally went fishing with those comments and those responses are exactly what I'm referring to. The balance is there either way - but when you want control and want to rationalize something, there's really no true line of comparison. One person experiences this, while others do not. That's telling and many should keep that in mind.

**NotoriousReignz** · 03-30-2012, 02:07 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

How is what I re-posted from Russell subjective?

This type of error you can blame on the game: You line up your outfielder perfectly with where the ball indicator is, and it goes way over the outfielder's head anyway, multiple times in one game. That's the game's fault not the user's. That's not like holding the circle button down too long and throwing it over the first baseman's head.

**Pared** · 03-30-2012, 02:17 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I already mentioned the wind has nothing to do with the balance in the game. If you would like to harp on it, there's not much else I can say to you. But it really does not have anything to do with the game's balance.

Plus, this is another area where slider customization works if it bothers you that much. Just like Manny and his preference to slow down the pitch speed.

**lhslancers** · 03-30-2012, 02:22 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

I guess it is all a matter of personal taste and I understand why PYS wouldn't sell near what The Show does in non Japanese speaking countries. I used to play baseball games a lot last generation machines and just recently just picked up on them again with MLB 11. The game looks great and plays pretty well but there isn't one aspect of the game hitting pitching and fielding that PYS doesn't do better IMHO.

**Manny_Shevitz** · 03-30-2012, 02:26 PM

Re: An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

Pared, both Notorious and I prefaced our statements by saying that we knew you were probably just citing random hypothetical examples and not picking on a specific aspect of the game, so I don't know why you're jumping on that.

Out of curiosity, have you ever played PYS?

An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

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