Zito to...Giants!?

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  • Scottdau
    Banned
    • Feb 2003
    • 32580

    #91
    Re: Zito to...Giants!?

    Originally posted by rubisco43
    my point is, a lower whip is a bigger indication of a pitcher's ability to win. Wins being tied to a pitcher's dominance is phony. Wins is a product of team performance. WHIP is a product of a pitcher's performance.

    A player plays for money and to get into the Hall, so maybe they should say if you have a great WHIP you get in for sure!

    Give me as break Pitcher's don't pitch for win come on! lol

    Comment

    • sask3m
      Banned
      • Sep 2002
      • 2352

      #92
      Re: Zito to...Giants!?

      yeah after every game the losing pitcher says well i don't care if i won the game or not cause i still pitched well, lol

      Comment

      • Scottdau
        Banned
        • Feb 2003
        • 32580

        #93
        Re: Zito to...Giants!?

        Originally posted by sask3m
        yeah after every game the losing pitcher says well i don't care if i won the game or not cause i still pitched well, lol
        Yep that is all that matters their WHIP! lol That is what gets you the big bucks.

        Comment

        • bkrich83
          Has Been
          • Jul 2002
          • 71582

          #94
          Re: Zito to...Giants!?

          Originally posted by Scottd
          Yep that is all that matters their WHIP! lol That is what gets you the big bucks.
          I think you missed Rubisco's point.
          Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

          Comment

          • rubisco43
            All Star
            • Feb 2003
            • 4372

            #95
            Re: Zito to...Giants!?

            Originally posted by Scottd
            A player plays for money and to get into the Hall, so maybe they should say if you have a great WHIP you get in for sure!

            Give me as break Pitcher's don't pitch for win come on! lol
            ok, here it is. wins is obviously important for the HOF because historically there's been that "magical" mark of 300 wins. There's never been a magical WHIP mark. I agree with that. I also agree that pitchers pitch for the win. That's a no brainer. And nothing I've said earlier refutes that or disagrees with either point. My point is simple... WHIP shows how well a pitcher pitches, and what's important? Preventing the other team from scoring runs. The easiest way to do that is to keep them off base. Follow me so far? Therefore, keep the WHIP low is a great indication of a pitcher's ability to keep runners off base (and in a smaller fashion, k/9). However, no matter how low the WHIP is, if the offense can't score, the pitcher doesn't win. Therefore, wins is a team effort. Both on the pitching and defense to prevent runs, and the offense to score runs. Very few times during the course of 35 starts, will a pitcher completely dominates the game, and will rely on the team performance for that win. Most other times, the win will be a product of an entire team's effort.

            And I would also like to point out that I've never said Zito was a bad pitcher or even sub-par pitcher. I'm just making a case for WHIP as a better indicator of a pitcher's abilities rather than wins.
            http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=805002

            Comment

            • Scottdau
              Banned
              • Feb 2003
              • 32580

              #96
              Re: Zito to...Giants!?

              Originally posted by bkrich83
              I think you missed Rubisco's point.
              No I got it, but the bottom line is baseball is a team sports. And you look at the great pitchers they play for some great teams. You need both to be a great pitcher. And the Giants do have a solid infield which will help him alot. Now the OUtfield is a different story! I just think wins is what matters to a pitcher and making the big bucks. I still think ERA is the most important thing!

              Comment

              • Scottdau
                Banned
                • Feb 2003
                • 32580

                #97
                Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                Originally posted by rubisco43
                ok, here it is. wins is obviously important for the HOF because historically there's been that "magical" mark of 300 wins. There's never been a magical WHIP mark. I agree with that. I also agree that pitchers pitch for the win. That's a no brainer. And nothing I've said earlier refutes that or disagrees with either point. My point is simple... WHIP shows how well a pitcher pitches, and what's important? Preventing the other team from scoring runs. The easiest way to do that is to keep them off base. Follow me so far? Therefore, keep the WHIP low is a great indication of a pitcher's ability to keep runners off base (and in a smaller fashion, k/9). However, no matter how low the WHIP is, if the offense can't score, the pitcher doesn't win. Therefore, wins is a team effort. Both on the pitching and defense to prevent runs, and the offense to score runs. Very few times during the course of 35 starts, will a pitcher completely dominates the game, and will rely on the team performance for that win. Most other times, the win will be a product of an entire team's effort.

                And I would also like to point out that I've never said Zito was a bad pitcher or even sub-par pitcher. I'm just making a case for WHIP as a better indicator of a pitcher's abilities rather than wins.
                NO I got you, I just disagree! Wins are what matter. I am sure you can break everything down, but at the end of a career what gets you in the hall! Wins! I will take Zito winning 20 games a year for the next 5 years over so pitcher that has a great WHIP, but only wins 10 games a year!

                Comment

                • bkrich83
                  Has Been
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 71582

                  #98
                  Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                  Originally posted by Scottd
                  NO I got you, I just disagree! Wins are what matter. I am sure you can break everything down, but at the end of a career what gets you in the hall! Wins! I will take Zito winning 20 games a year for the next 5 years over so pitcher that has a great WHIP, but only wins 10 games a year!
                  Zito's win totals

                  17,23,14, 11, 14, 16.

                  He's more likely to win 10 games a year, than 20 for 5 years straight.
                  Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                  Comment

                  • Scottdau
                    Banned
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 32580

                    #99
                    Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                    Originally posted by bkrich83
                    Zito's win totals

                    17,23,14, 11, 14, 16.

                    He's more likely to win 10 games a year, than 20 for 5 years straight.
                    Will he is still in his prime so you never know! But I will take 18 lol Hell 15 is good season nowadays!

                    Comment

                    • bkrich83
                      Has Been
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 71582

                      #100
                      Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                      Originally posted by Scottd
                      Will he is still in his prime so you never know! But I will take 18 lol
                      Since his Cy Young year, he's averaged 14 wins a year, with a high of 16. Good luck with that.
                      Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

                      Comment

                      • AI_Franchise
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2002
                        • 2146

                        #101
                        Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                        The way it stands right now on paper, I think Boston got the best deal out of the entire league...I guess we'll how true that is when the season starts.

                        Comment

                        • P2K
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 8845

                          #102
                          Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                          Ugh @ this argument.

                          Comment

                          • rubisco43
                            All Star
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 4372

                            #103
                            Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                            Originally posted by AI_Franchise
                            The way it stands right now on paper, I think Boston got the best deal out of the entire league...I guess we'll how true that is when the season starts.
                            yeah, with the potential advertising bucks they'll make in japan, they'll easily make back that 51 mil posting fee.
                            http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=805002

                            Comment

                            • Scottdau
                              Banned
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 32580

                              #104
                              Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                              Originally posted by bkrich83
                              Since his Cy Young year, he's averaged 14 wins a year, with a high of 16. Good luck with that.
                              And good luck with Jake winning more then 11 this year.

                              Comment

                              • bkrich83
                                Has Been
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 71582

                                #105
                                Re: Zito to...Giants!?

                                Originally posted by Scottd
                                And good luck with Jake winning more then 11 this year.
                                That's relevant to the Giants overpaying how?
                                Tracking my NCAA Coach Career

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