Zito to...Giants!?

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

That's relevant to the Giants overpaying how?

It is not just wanting to throw that in.

[mjb2124]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

my point is, a lower whip is a bigger indication of a pitcher's ability to win. Wins being tied to a pitcher's dominance is phony. Wins is a product of team performance. WHIP is a product of a pitcher's performance.

Bingo. WHIP and other stats are indications of a pitchers future success against the league.

Wins are a vastly overrated stat for a pitcher because it's a team based stat and not necessarily indicative of how well a pitcher is doing. Pitcher A can pitch 6 innings, give up 14 runs and still get the win. Pitcher B can pitch 11 innings, give up 1 run in the 11th inning and take a loss.

[dl2518]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

As a Giants fan I am very happy about this. If Zito signed with your guys teams you would be the same. We are getting a great pitcher in his prime. Plus being in the NL he will probably be even better, no DH's, the league doesn't know him and At&T Parks is more of a pitchers park then Oakland. He's a perfect fit for this team. Compared to what Meche and Suppan signed for this is what it was going to take to land Zito. That's the market!

[oakfan162]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

As an A's fan, I dont mind this signing at all. We knew we were not going to keep him. And we are glad he isnt in the AL West or even the AL. and thank god he didnt go to any NY team. The only thing id worry about is him pitching without all the foul space of McAfee, other than that I wish him and the Giants all the luck.

[TheTruth916]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

All i have to say about this signing...Zito 126million...see Hampton and Brown.

[bravosfan]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Wow, I thought for sure he was going to the Mets... should be interesting to see what Minaya comes up with now.

[roadman]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Bingo. WHIP and other stats are indications of a pitchers future success against the league.

Wins are a vastly overrated stat for a pitcher because it's a team based stat and not necessarily indicative of how well a pitcher is doing. Pitcher A can pitch 6 innings, give up 14 runs and still get the win. Pitcher B can pitch 11 innings, give up 1 run in the 11th inning and take a loss.

Bingo, we have a winner.

Won/Loss records and ERA are vastly over-rated stats. WHIP and ERA+(which is adjusted for different parks) are more indicative of what a pitchers history has been and what their future will be.

It's just like on the offensive side of the ball. BA and HR are overrated, and on-base% plus slugging%=OPS is a better indicator of what kind of a hitter you are.

I don't think young pitchers coming into the league, think, I need to get to the Hall. I think the bottomline for them, is, how do I help my team win. The big paydays and HOF's come later down the road.

[sask3m]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

well in order to get many wins a pitcher has to be able to go deep into the game on a consistent basis which zito does, he doesn't just fold up the tent and go home if he doesn't have his good stuff, he's a battler.

[roadman]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

well in order to get many wins a pitcher has to be able to go deep into the game on a consistent basis which zito does, he doesn't just fold up the tent and go home if he doesn't have his good stuff, he's a battler.

If he does that, though, how do you explain only one season over 20 victories and the last 4 seasons an average of 15 wins at best without looking up how many victories he's had.

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

If he does that, though, how do you explain only one season over 20 victories and the last 4 seasons an average of 15 wins at best without looking up how many victories he's had.

Since his Cy Young season, he's averaged 14 wins. With a high of 16 and a low of 11.

[roadman]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Since his Cy Young season, he's averaged 14 wins. With a high of 16 and a low of 11.

I knew you had the stats somewhere , but I was too lazy to start a new tab.

Thanks BK.

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Bingo, we have a winner.

Won/Loss records and ERA are vastly over-rated stats. WHIP and ERA+(which is adjusted for different parks) are more indicative of what a pitchers history has been and what their future will be.

It's just like on the offensive side of the ball. BA and HR are overrated, and on-base% plus slugging%=OPS is a better indicator of what kind of a hitter you are.

I don't think young pitchers coming into the league, think, I need to get to the Hall. I think the bottomline for them, is, how do I help my team win. The big paydays and HOF's come later down the road.

Right I am sure getting wins have nothing to do with it! Sure WHIP is important, but I will take wins first! He knows how to win and he eats inning which is very important. And say what you, but he did win a CY Young and is still very young. Seems to me this is a guy everybody wanted and tried to get and yet they didn't seem to care about his WHIP LOL! Cain and Zito I am happy!

[roadman]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Right I am sure getting wins have nothing to do with it! Sure WHIP is important, but I will take wins first! He knows how to win and he eats inning which is very important. And say what you, but he did win a CY Young and is still very young. Seems to me this is a guy everybody wanted and tried to get and yet they didn't seem to care about his WHIP LOL! Cain and Zito I am happy!

Ok, he was one of the two sought after SP in the weak or mediocure pitchers market this year. The market bared what it did.

If the Giants want a pitcher that's won an an average of 15 games per season and has a decreasing k/w ratio, and wants to pay $18 million for that, that's fine with me.

I wouldn't underestimate GM's, they are paid to look at stats beyond won/loss records, especially Beane.

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Ok, he was one of the two sought after SP in the weak or mediocure pitchers market this year. The market bared what it did.

If the Giants want a pitcher that's won an an average of 15 games per season and has a decreasing k/w ratio, and wants to pay $18 million for that, that's fine with me.

I wouldn't underestimate GM's, they are paid to look at stats beyond won/loss records, especially Beane.

What ever bro! You can say that is too much, but in to days market that is just how it is. Zito is only 27 and will be fine. I will take what ever he can give us.

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

All i have to say about this signing...Zito 126million...see Hampton and Brown.

And if he sign with your team I would be saying the same thing! I love how everybody wants to hate on Zito. But oh well I will take Zito and Cain over any pitchers in the Leage! I know I am a homer!