Zito to...Giants!?

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

jeez, those three things might be the three most overrated stats for pitchers.

i look much more into whip, g/f (for park factors only), and k/9. but that might be just me.

WHIP is big with me. G/F and K/9 are smaller factors for me, but WHIP is the most telling one imo.

[sask3m]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

peavy is also pitching in what could possibly be the best pitchers park in baseball since the polo grounds.

[rubisco43]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Well, wins is never overrated. That's the whole point, is to get wins. How you acquire them is another story though.

Wins is a product of a pitcher picthing well enough to win. only a handful of times during the year will a pitcher completely dominate a game. that's why i think the ability to keep your team in the game so the offense can score is much more important than the actual wins.

for example, i will aruge till my throat is dry that Jon Garland's 18 wins (whip=1.36, k/9=4.77) or Jason Marquis' 14 wins (whip=1.52, k/9=4.45) is much less impressive than Roy Oswalt's 15 (whip=1.17, k/9=6.77).

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

peavy is also pitching in what could possibly be the best pitchers park in baseball since the polo grounds.

It wasn't that way this year. Maybe in 2004 it was.

[rubisco43]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

WHIP is big with me. G/F and K/9 are smaller factors for me, but WHIP is the most telling one imo.

k/9 is big with me b/c strike a batter out as opposed to putting the ball in play gives the batter a much smaller chance of getting on base. but i agree bk, whip is a much bigger indication of a pitchers abilities and effectiveness.

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

k/9 is big with me b/c strike a batter out as opposed to putting the ball in play gives the batter a much smaller chance of getting on base. but i agree bk, whip is a much bigger indication of a pitchers abilities and effectiveness.

Agreed on K/9. But guys like Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine were never big K/9 pitchers. I guess the thing is, guys who don't strike a lot of guys out, generally have smaller margin for error.

[AI_Franchise]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Wins is a product of a pitcher picthing well enough to win. only a handful of times during the year will a pitcher completely dominate a game. that's why i think the ability to keep your team in the game so the offense can score is much more important than the actual wins.

for example, i will aruge till my throat is dry that Jon Garland's 18 wins (whip=1.36, k/9=4.77) or Jason Marquis' 14 wins (whip=1.52, k/9=4.45) is much less impressive than Roy Oswalt's 15 (whip=1.17, k/9=6.77).

I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove, but my point is that Wins shouldn't be disregarded. I value wins a lot, but you have to take into consideration of what the pitcher did to acquire it. I'm not going to make an argument that the pitcher with the most wins out of a select group is the most dominant, 'cause we all know that's not true, but rather that the Wins factor are indeed used to account for the pitcher's dominance.

Pedro would have been looked in much higher light had he been able to rack up the Wins against the Yankees...you see where I'm going with this?

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Peavy was never the same after the WBC. IF you look at the last 3 years though, Peavy matches up with Zito pretty well. I'll take Peavy, not to mention, he's younger and not costing us $126M.

Well if he bounces back and becomes a stud again you will be paying the big bucks to keep him!

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Well if he bounces back and becomes a stud again you will be paying the big bucks to keep him!

He's signed a 4 year contract extension not that long ago.

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

WHIP is big with me. G/F and K/9 are smaller factors for me, but WHIP is the most telling one imo.

Yeah and that is what gets you in the Hall! WHIP! lol What ever I will take wins and loses and ERA any day! You can have a great WHIP numbers and still lose a lot of game! lol

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

He's signed a 4 year contract extension not that long ago.

YEah but if he is still young then when he hits him so called prime, he will want big bucks! lol

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Yeah and that is what gets you in the Hall! WHIP! lol What ever I will take wins and loses and ERA any day! You can have a great WHIP numbers and still lose a lot of game! lol

How many HOF pitchers don't have a great WHIP?

I could care less about the hall,I want to win games. Good luck with Zito, with Bonds in left, you're probably going to need it.

[bkrich83]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

YEah but if he is still young then when he hits him so called prime, he will want big bucks! lol

Umm. Ok.

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

How many HOF pitchers don't have a great WHIP?

I could care less about the hall,I want to win games. Good luck with Zito, with Bonds in left, you're probably going to need it.

Now you are talkiing about wins I thought the WHIP was more important! lol Damn BK you got me rolling today lmao

[Scottdau]

Re: Zito to...Giants!?

Umm. Ok.

The great ones leave if they don't get the big bucks. Especailly nowadays. I can't blame them, becasue the Teams are to much loyal any more either!