Rollins NL MVP

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Lets not get crazy with that first sentence. There is no reason that a player cant be picked from a non-winning team. A key sentence from the HOF voting instruction given to the sports writers that vote: "The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier."

By using that line of thinking, your downgrading a perhaps superior players season because he played on a crappy team. For intstance, its not Pujol's fault his teammates didnt have good seasons.

Exactly. It's an individual award the last I checked. The most valuable player. I read that as the player with the most value. I guess others interpret it as a great player on a playoff team who gets hyped by the media.

[chippered]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Key words: need not.

But we fully know that being in the playoffs or getting seriously close is a big thing to the voters.

Yeah, I agree that its big to the voters.

I guess that to me it seems that when they created the award they didnt explain it thoroughly enough, perhaps. I mean Most Valuable should mean what? The guy that was most valuable to his teams success.

I mean, yeah, I guess that should only include the guys that were in it till the end, not necessarily making the playoffs. Using the MVP terminology makes picking a guy with the best stats on a last place team seem rediculous, no?

But there seems to be this huge split between all of us as to what this award really means. Maybe, since pitchers can, although rarely, win the MVP, there should be another Cy Young equivelant award for hitters. I dont know, call it the Babe Ruth award, but make sure its on the same level as the Cy Young award, just for hitters.

Then the MVP will be what it was/should've been meant for: The player the meant the most to his teams success throughout the season.

I dont know, just an idea.

[DrJones]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Maybe, since pitchers can, although rarely, win the MVP, there should be another Cy Young equivelant award for hitters. I dont know, call it the Babe Ruth award, but make sure its on the same level as the Cy Young award, just for hitters.

Such an award already exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Aaron_Award

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Such an award already exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Aaron_Award

Yeah its a good concept, doesnt get near the hype as the CY though. Seeing the joke of silver slugger winners though makes me think general voting for best hitters will be terrible too.

[chippered]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Such an award already exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Aaron_Award

Right, but its not touted as it should be. Most casual fans see the MVP as the "best hitter award." The Hank Aaron Award should be promoted better to help show the fans, writers, and such what it actually means.

Yeah its a good concept, doesnt get near the hype as the CY though. Seeing the joke of silver slugger winners though makes me think general voting for best hitters will be terrible too.

Possibly, but like I said above, MLB awards arent promoted as they should be, with the exception of the Cy Young. Other than that one, the other two are pretty contradicting.

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

I apologize for bringing stats into a baseball discussion. I'm sure your biased eyeballing is much more reliable.

Biased?

Last time I checked, I'm not a voter for these awards.

So if you want to call someone biased...talk to the voters.

[snepp]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

I apologize for bringing stats into a baseball discussion. I'm sure your biased eyeballing is much more reliable.

Don't sweat it. The only argument he brings to any baseball discussion is, "because I said so".

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Lets not get crazy with that first sentence. There is no reason that a player cant be picked from a non-winning team. A key sentence from the HOF voting instruction given to the sports writers that vote: "The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier."

By using that line of thinking, your downgrading a perhaps superior players season because he played on a crappy team. For intstance, its not Pujol's fault his teammates didnt have good seasons.

It's easy to finish in last place w/out an MVP. I don't need talent on my roster to lose more than I win. Therefore, I question the value of a player on a losing outfit. This is not the MTP (Most Talented Player). This is the MVP. Pujols may not have been officially disqualified from the discussion, but he is in my book. And I bet he was in a lot of voters' minds as well. Besides, wasn't the guy out for a considerable amount of time as well?

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Yeah, I agree that its big to the voters.

I guess that to me it seems that when they created the award they didnt explain it thoroughly enough, perhaps. I mean Most Valuable should mean what? The guy that was most valuable to his teams success.

I mean, yeah, I guess that should only include the guys that were in it till the end, not necessarily making the playoffs. Using the MVP terminology makes picking a guy with the best stats on a last place team seem rediculous, no?

But there seems to be this huge split between all of us as to what this award really means. Maybe, since pitchers can, although rarely, win the MVP, there should be another Cy Young equivelant award for hitters. I dont know, call it the Babe Ruth award, but make sure its on the same level as the Cy Young award, just for hitters.

Then the MVP will be what it was/should've been meant for: The player the meant the most to his teams success throughout the season.

I dont know, just an idea.

that position has merit. The Cy young isn't the most valuable pitcher award. Its the best pitcher.

Be that as it may, the MVP still is for the player most valuable to his team's success. How can a defending champion end up w/a losing record & consider themselves as having success? Albert shouldn't even make the top 5, despite whatever his stats are.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

It's easy to finish in last place w/out an MVP. I don't need talent on my roster to lose more than I win. Therefore, I question the value of a player on a losing outfit. This is not the MTP (Most Talented Player). This is the MVP. Pujols may not have been officially disqualified from the discussion, but he is in my book. And I bet he was in a lot of voters' minds as well. Besides, wasn't the guy out for a considerable amount of time as well?

I still don't understand this argument. Straight from the letter sent to MVP voters: "Actual value of a player to his team, that is, the strength of his offense and defense."

Pujols has stronger offensive and stronger defensive value than Rollins. Why do people still see value as something relative to how good his teammates play? It seems very clear what value means.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

And I don't see why anyone would dismiss winning as a criteria. Again, is Pujols the "most valuable" in the NL by not even helping his team win half of their games? The only time a stat stuffer on a losing team should win is if there are zero viable candidates on the winners & his numbers are waaayyyyy better than anyone else's.

A team's winning percentage is no more the beat all that ends all than some mathematical formula. But just like a person's stats, it has to be used on the checklist.

take voting for the president. Do (or should) people just vote for the best in foreign affairs? or domestic policy? experienced? personality? or should they vote for the one that has the best combination of those qualities? Some one may have a lot of good qualities, but if he is sorely lacking in one of those catergories, he shouldn't be elected.

Same w/the MVP. You've got to look @ the whole picture. Winning, leadership, production, defense, consistency..... If someone is lacking severly in any of those catergories, you can't ignore it. Pujols stuffed his own stat sheet, but he didn't lead the Cards to anywhere but an earlier vacation. Where's the leadership? the winning? Especially when you consider how pathetic the NL was & they were in the worst division there.

Al shouldn't even enter the discussion.

[snepp]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

FJM's favorite whipping boy from the Philly Daily News gets another healthy dose of "my lord you're ********".

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

FJM's favorite whipping boy from the Philly Daily News gets another healthy dose of "my lord you're ********".

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

Geez, who is this butt clown that writes on FJM? What a ninny.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

FJM's favorite whipping boy from the Philly Daily News gets another healthy dose of "my lord you're ********".

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

I couldn't read it all. It seemed to be written by someone off his meds.

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

I couldn't read it all. It seemed to be written by someone off his meds.

More like that chimp with the rage virus from 28 Days Later.