Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

[Kearnzo]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

B) Why do 99% of the people only look towards next year? There is life after 2008, if we don't make it to the playoffs or World Series, who cares as long as the near future is still very bright. Hell, look at your very own Red Sox. After winning the WS in '04 they had a disappointing playoff showing in '05 and then an embarrassing collapse in the '06 regular season and missed the playoffs. They easily could have panicked and gone crazy with transactions, but instead they stood by their plan and now look where they are. Another title and in great shape for the future.

100% agreed. That's what the Yankees front office doesn't seem to understand anymore. You'd think they would have learned from the last few seasons that the Santana trade MIGHT blow up in their face. As it is, they are still a damn good team, and looking to the future, a rotation constisting of Wang/Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy sounds potentially frightening.

Now granted, the Sox are essentially doing the same thing to get Santana, but they aren't giving up their only top prospects for Santana. Even if they deal Lester, they still have Ellsbury and Clay. If they deal Ellsbury, then they still have guys like Lester and Clay. Either way, despite dealing a lot for Johan, they are still very well set for not only now, but for the future as well.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

A) Once again I'll ask you, when did it become a mandatory rule that must have an ace to win a World Series? Does it make it easier, yeah. Is it mandatory, hell no. Several teams in the recent past have proved that.


B) Why do 99% of the people only look towards next year? There is life after 2008, if we don't make it to the playoffs or World Series, who cares as long as the near future is still very bright. Hell, look at your very own Red Sox. After winning the WS in '04 they had a disappointing playoff showing in '05 and then an embarrassing collapse in the '06 regular season and missed the playoffs. They easily could have panicked and gone crazy with transactions, but instead they stood by their plan and now look where they are. Another title and in great shape for the future.

A) You need one when 60% of your starting rotation is made up of rookies (they shouldn't go more than 160-170 innings either if you want them to last). Sure you can win without a legit ace but there is no excuse for a team with as many resources as the Yankees not having one.

B) Life after next year will include Santana. The guy is still in his 20s and one of the best two or three overall starting pitchers in the game AND he has no significant injury history. Getting him isn't just about 2008, it's about the next 5-6 years. In baseball, that's pretty much long term.

[NYJets]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

If the Twins do this deal they are idiots.

[bergie56]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

If the Twins do this deal they are idiots.

What deal?

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Current offer is Santana for Lester, Coco, Masterson, and Lowrie

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Heyman believes that the Sox could end up making it a 5 for 1 trade.

Sox Get

Santana

Twins Get

Crisp
Lester
Lowrie
Masterson
Lars Anderson (1st base prospect)/ Ryan Kalish (of prospect)/ Michael Bowden (pitching prospect).

[dust247]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I'm not completely satisfied with the offer currently on the table, but it sounds like that's the best it'll get. If only the Angels and Dodgers could jump into the trade talks...

I feel the Dodgers are more interested in Bedard, but if the Orioles deal him somewhere else, the Dodgers may become interested in Santana again.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The Dodgers? Yea right.

Lars Anderson has HUGE power potential. I think I'd rather the Twins go for Door #2 and take Ellsbury, Bowden, and Masterson than the adding Lars to the Lester deal. Maybe not, I don't know. I'm not a big fan of Lester and his relative lack of control so maybe it's for the best. I could easily see him becoming one of those 180-200 IP, 4.30 ERA guys that are good and quite useful but not exactly anything special.

I'm not really sure what Twins fans are expecting for a package considering Santana has one year left with the Twins, they allegedly can't or won't pony up enough to re-sign him, AND he's going to cost his new team $150 million. The new team is giving up a pile of prospects to sign a guy to the richest deal ever for a pitcher. Santana isn't as blindingly shiny as you think.

[bergie56]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The Dodgers? Yea right.

Lars Anderson has HUGE power potential. I think I'd rather the Twins go for Door #2 and take Ellsbury, Bowden, and Masterson than the adding Lars to the Lester deal. Maybe not, I don't know. I'm not a big fan of Lester and his relative lack of control so maybe it's for the best. I could easily see him becoming one of those 180-200 IP, 4.30 ERA guys that are good and quite useful but not exactly anything special.

I'm not really sure what Twins fans are expecting for a package considering Santana has one year left with the Twins, they allegedly can't or won't pony up enough to re-sign him, AND he's going to cost his new team $150 million. The new team is giving up a pile of prospects to sign a guy to the richest deal ever for a pitcher. Santana isn't as blindingly shiny as you think.

Never said Santana was the second coming. He gives up a decent amount of home runs and sometimes I think he throws too many strikes as strange as that sounds. I justdon't think that the offers on the table so far have been very impressive. If that is all we are going to get, then so be it. Its not like the fans on here are demanding Becket and Ortiz in return.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

There is no way the Sox include Lester, Masterson, AND Bowden. That is 3 starting pitchers 23 or younger with front of the rotation potential(And all 3 have shown they have poise on the mound). No way in hell that happens.

I also don't see them adding Kalish or Lars because of how good they already are at such young ages. The 4 people in that one offer is already a lot to give up to a team that doesn't have any other real offers, why add another potential all-star?

I could see them adding on Josh Reddick or Aaron Bates to that offer, but not any of their upper prospects.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Heyman believes adding one of those 3 will seal the deal. I still think if the Yanks offer Melky/Hughes/Kennedy/lower prospect I think the Twins would take it.

Also A's and Diamondbacks are talking about Haren. Mets are after Bedard.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Never said Santana was the second coming. He gives up a decent amount of home runs and sometimes I think he throws too many strikes as strange as that sounds. I justdon't think that the offers on the table so far have been very impressive. If that is all we are going to get, then so be it. Its not like the fans on here are demanding Becket and Ortiz in return.

Oh, I'm not saying that Santana isn't the second coming. Well he's not, but he's still one of the two or three best starters in the league including age and injury history. Maybe the best, and that is definitely worth a lot. It's just that considering the money either the Yanks or Sox will have to spend to extend him his price is very steep. Think of it as:

2007 Santana + 2008 thru 2012(13) Santana at $25M/yr - FOR - Lester, Masterson, Bowden, Lowrie, and maybe Anderson.

I think that's a very fair offer to the Twins all things considered. Lester should become an above average major league starter, Masterson projects to be very good, Bowden is probably undervalued simply because he's behind Lester and Buchholz, and I really like Lars. I know Twins fans want Ellsbury AND Lester but it's not like you wouldn't be getting quite a few good future parts out of that deal.

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There is no way the Sox include Lester, Masterson, AND Bowden. That is 3 starting pitchers 23 or younger with front of the rotation potential(And all 3 have shown they have poise on the mound). No way in hell that happens.

Bowden needs a lot of work. While he's a good prospect that's still all he is, meanwhile Santana is the real deal. I wouldn't ever let a guy like Bowden be the difference between putting a frontline pitcher in the rotation or not.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Heyman believes adding one of those 3 will seal the deal.

Of course it would seal the deal...

Sox top two prospects; Buchholz and Ellsbury are off-limits in this deal.

So you offer your next 3? Along with 2 major league players? No way in hell that happens, not when there is no competition.

Masterson, Lowrie, and Bowden; Sox respective 3, 4, and 5 prospects. Then you have Lars Anderson at #6, and Ryan Kalish at #8. The sox are not going to offer 3 of their top 6(not including Ells and Buch) prospects along with Lester and Coco. No way no how.

[bergie56]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Oh, I'm not saying that Santana isn't the second coming. Well he's not, but he's still one of the two or three best starters in the league including age and injury history. Maybe the best, and that is definitely worth a lot. It's just that considering the money either the Yanks or Sox will have to spend to extend him his price is very steep. Think of it as:

2007 Santana + 2008 thru 2012(13) Santana at $25M/yr - FOR - Lester, Masterson, Bowden, Lowrie, and maybe Anderson.

I think that's a very fair offer to the Twins all things considered. Lester should become an above average major league starter, Masterson projects to be very good, Bowden is probably undervalued simply because he's behind Lester and Buchholz, and I really like Lars. I know Twins fans want Ellsbury AND Lester but it's not like you wouldn't be getting quite a few good future parts out of that deal.

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Bowden needs a lot of work. While he's a good prospect that's still all he is, meanwhile Santana is the real deal. I wouldn't ever let a guy like Bowden be the difference between putting a frontline pitcher in the rotation or not.

I am guessing this would be the best offer we would get. I can't really see this going on for too much longer, as no other team seems to be interested. It wouldn't kill me to see Santana in a Red Sox uniform since I enjoy watching them play. It will be really strange not having a definite top of the rotation pitcher for the next couple years.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Bowden needs a lot of work. While he's a good prospect that's still all he is, meanwhile Santana is the real deal. I wouldn't ever let a guy like Bowden be the difference between putting a frontline pitcher in the rotation or not.

Dude... he needs a lot of work because he's only JUST turned 21!

As good as Santana is, he is NOT worth THAT amount of talent on TOP OF the $150M he is likely to demand.