Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Yeah they'll just continue to re-load. But, the reality is, they have been doing the same thing for 7-8 years running, and how many championships has it resulted in?

I think the hold up right now is disagreement over the third player to include. Hughes and Cabrera are in, but the Yanks don't want to include anybody else who is could be good. The Twins on the other hand, want somebody who can contribute if Hughes doesn't live up to expectations. Cabrera is never going to be anything great; but he's decent and cheap, which is good enough for those penny pinchers. I think ultimately the Twins will get the better of the Yankees here, if they persist on getting one of the Yankees better minor leaguers.

[Knight165]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

How about Jose Tabata? or Humberto Sanchez(who was rated HIGHER than Chamberlain)

I still say....the Twins should demand either both Hughes/Chamberlain or Hughes/ Kennedy or Chamberlain/Kennedy with Cabrera
OR
Hughes/Cano/Tabata(or Sanchez)

Santana to the RedSox = no division championships for the Yankees(generally speaking...who knows what could happen, but I think you understand what I mean).
The Yankees need Santana more than the Sox do right now IMO and I think they realize that and would be willing to "overpay". I think that is evident in how quickly they were willing to throw Hughes into the deal after the original offer was shot down. They didn't even let the Twins stew a little.

....If Georgie Boy was still running the show....Yankee fans would already be welcoming Santana to N.Y.......and saying goodbye to both Hughes and Chamberlain.
I don't know who is smarter.....George or his sons

M.K.
Knight165

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

So first Ken Rosenthal reported that the 3rd guy would be either Alan Horne or Alberto Gonzalez. Now Jon Heyman is reporting that they want either Alan Horne or Austin Jackson.

There's also a possibility that if the Yankees and Twins can't agree on a trade soon, they will turn towards Dan Haren.

[TheFallenAngel]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

How about Jose Tabata? or Humberto Sanchez(who was rated HIGHER than Chamberlain)

I still say....the Twins should demand either both Hughes/Chamberlain or Hughes/ Kennedy or Chamberlain/Kennedy with Cabrera
OR
Hughes/Cano/Tabata(or Sanchez)

Santana to the RedSox = no division championships for the Yankees(generally speaking...who knows what could happen, but I think you understand what I mean).
The Yankees need Santana more than the Sox do right now IMO and I think they realize that and would be willing to "overpay". I think that is evident in how quickly they were willing to throw Hughes into the deal after the original offer was shot down. They didn't even let the Twins stew a little.

....If Georgie Boy was still running the show....Yankee fans would already be welcoming Santana to N.Y.......and saying goodbye to both Hughes and Chamberlain.
I don't know who is smarter.....George or his sons

M.K.
Knight165

I think if we were in this spot one year ago with George's sons not being involved and Cashman basically running the team that this deal probably wouldn't be close to being done. I honestly don't have a premise for this but I really don't think Cashman is the one who is willing to trade Hughes. He might be but I just don't think so.

[SPTO]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I'm sure this was reported but my local sports station said the Yanks have added Hughes along with Cabrera and a mid level prospect in their offer to the Twins for Santana.

That's a pretty good deal to pass up and i'm sure as it stands right now it's probably the best deal on the table.

[Knight165]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I'm sure this was reported but my local sports station said the Yanks have added Hughes along with Cabrera and a mid level prospect in their offer to the Twins for Santana.

That's a pretty good deal to pass up and i'm sure as it stands right now it's probably the best deal on the table.

This is where I disagree with everyone.
Yes, Hughes has the potential to be an outstanding pitcher by all accounts. So let's just say he becomes anything near Santana talent/stuff and guts wise. That's 1.
Now we're on to Melky. Nothing but an average OF. Seriously, defensively he's barely average and his arm is below average. His offense might be above average. Do the Twins need to get Melky Cabrera from the Yanks?....they could get a Melky Cabrera from anyone.
The mid level prospects being talked about are a dime a dozen in every teams organization somewhere.
So basically you are trading Santana for Hughes. Sure, the Twins cannot afford Santana and they will be able to keep Hughes who MIGHT be a top notch starter for a couple of years, but the Twins can do better.
Like I said.....add in one of the other pitchers(Chamberlain or Kennedy) or Cano(IMO a legitimate upper tier player if not now....in the very near future...yeah his defense is sub-par, but the guy can hit).

IMO, the Twins need TWO upper level prospects and one M.L. ready player for it to be a fair trade for them.
If not now....wait until the Yanks/Sox bash each other around all season and are neck and neck at the deadline and see if you can squeeze something better out of them. Yes, you do run the risk of the need for one of those teams to go down...but that's when you bring in a third/fourth fifth team into the mix and see if they would be willing to part with some prospects.

I think most of you guys think the Yankees or Sox are the ones holding the Cards here...but IMO it's the Twins...they have what might be the best pitcher in baseball and multiple teams that are able to pay him. It's not like with Rodriguez, where there was basically just one team with the bucks to pay him.

M.K.
Knight165

[SPTO]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I think most of you guys think the Yankees or Sox are the ones holding the Cards here...but IMO it's the Twins...they have what might be the best pitcher in baseball and multiple teams that are able to pay him. It's not like with Rodriguez, where there was basically just one team with the bucks to pay him.

M.K.
Knight165

You just explained why your thesis doesn't work IMO. Teams aren't going to put up major players in a deadline deal when they can just wait out til Santana's contract is up with the Twins. Doing that would ensure the Yanks/Sox/whoever that they can get the best pitcher in the game without giving any thing up.

[Knight165]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

You just explained why your thesis doesn't work IMO. Teams aren't going to put up major players in a deadline deal when they can just wait out til Santana's contract is up with the Twins. Doing that would ensure the Yanks/Sox/whoever that they can get the best pitcher in the game without giving any thing up.

Not really.
Reread what I stated.
I don't think Twins will just let him go...and I explained that I believe that if the Yanks/Sox are not willing to part with fair value for the man.....then they should simply introduce some other clubs who I'm sure will be willing to part with just about the same amount of horses%i! the Yanks and Sox are "willing" to part with.
Will they? Probably not....they will fall for the Yankee overhype surrounding Hughes(and what I mean is....yes he is a top prospect, but the way the Yanks talk, he and Chamberlain are the second coming of a hybrid of Walter Johnson,Sandy Koufax,Bob Gibson and a splash of Don Sutton then there is.... OMG Melky Cabrera! Here have a sip of the Kool Aid Twins front office....you would think the Twins front office would be smarter than the average fan who falls for the hype that surrounds certain prospects.
Did Hughes do pretty good in the limited M.L. time we saw him? Yeah...sure
Does Chamberlain look like the real deal? Yeah...in the 1/3 of the season we saw him.
Does that mean the Twins should just hand him over for ONE of those guys? Not in my opinion.
I guess we'll see

M.K.
Knight165

[NYJets]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Now we're on to Melky. Nothing but an average OF. Seriously, defensively he's barely average and his arm is below average.

What??????

His arm is outstanding.

[NYJets]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Not really.
Reread what I stated.
I don't think Twins will just let him go...and I explained that I believe that if the Yanks/Sox are not willing to part with fair value for the man.....then they should simply introduce some other clubs who I'm sure will be willing to part with just about the same amount of horses%i! the Yanks and Sox are "willing" to part with.
Will they? Probably not....they will fall for the Yankee overhype surrounding Hughes(and what I mean is....yes he is a top prospect, but the way the Yanks talk, he and Chamberlain are the second coming of a hybrid of Walter Johnson,Sandy Koufax,Bob Gibson and a splash of Don Sutton then there is.... OMG Melky Cabrera! Here have a sip of the Kool Aid Twins front office....you would think the Twins front office would be smarter than the average fan who falls for the hype that surrounds certain prospects.
Did Hughes do pretty good in the limited M.L. time we saw him? Yeah...sure
Does Chamberlain look like the real deal? Yeah...in the 1/3 of the season we saw him.
Does that mean the Twins should just hand him over for ONE of those guys? Not in my opinion.
I guess we'll see

M.K.
Knight165

Who?

Only a few teams have the combination of money to pay him and the prospects. Yankees, Sox, possibly the Mets, but that doesn't look likely. Angels and Dodgers do but they don't seem willing to part with them.

Hughes looked good this season, and before the season he was listed in most places by around the 3rd best prospect in all of baseball. And there's a reason for it. Look at his stuff, and look at how he dominated the minor leagues. It's not hype. If there's a Yankee prospect being overhyped, I think it's Kennedy. Cashman has done a good job increasing his value by consistently listing him up with Joba and Hughes, even though he's not on their level.

Melky isn't anything special, but he is young and cheap and is a capable starting centerfielder.

And the 3rd player, it depends on who it is, but most of the names being thrown around aren't just throw in's or decent prospects. Horne projects as a #2 type pitcher and he should be major league ready at some point next season. Tabata is still far away, but he has a ton of potential, and he's dominated every level he's been at. He just needs to grow into his frame, as he's still really young.

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Sox willing to talk about Ellsbury.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Yep, Jets nailed it. The Twins are constrained to the Red Sox and Yankees because no other team has the combination of:

1. Major league ready, cost controlled premimum talent (Hughes, Ellsbury, Buchholz)
2. Money to extend Santana

In the case of the Yankees, the money to extend Santana is less of a big deal as it is to the Red Sox (and yes, I know the Red Sox are swimming in cash, I am speaking comparitively).

This why the Twins can't simply tell the Yankees or Red Sox to go screw. They are one of the only suitors.

Also, Cano isn't going anywhere. The Twins don't want him. He is too close to arbitration eligible and will command large dollars. The whole point of this for the Twins is to obtain cheap, great talent while avoiding the cost of paying Santana. Therefore, Cano isn't going anywhere.

[Knight165]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Who?

Only a few teams have the combination of money to pay him and the prospects. Yankees, Sox, possibly the Mets, but that doesn't look likely. Angels and Dodgers do but they don't seem willing to part with them.

Hughes looked good this season, and before the season he was listed in most places by around the 3rd best prospect in all of baseball. And there's a reason for it. Look at his stuff, and look at how he dominated the minor leagues. It's not hype. If there's a Yankee prospect being overhyped, I think it's Kennedy. Cashman has done a good job increasing his value by consistently listing him up with Joba and Hughes, even though he's not on their level.

Melky isn't anything special, but he is young and cheap and is a capable starting centerfielder.

And the 3rd player, it depends on who it is, but most of the names being thrown around aren't just throw in's or decent prospects. Horne projects as a #2 type pitcher and he should be major league ready at some point next season. Tabata is still far away, but he has a ton of potential, and he's dominated every level he's been at. He just needs to grow into his frame, as he's still really young.

...and herein lies the problem with Yankee fans. They tend to overhype their prospects and in Melkys case...players.
I'm asking you....do the Twins really need to send Johan Santana to get a player like Melky Cabrera back? They can get a player of Cabrera caliber from anywhere and as a matter of fact, they have a player in Denard Span who could probably step in and play CF for them right now.
I will respectfully just disagree with you on Melky's arm. You see what you see and I see what I see....and his defense is nothing to write home about IMO.....but of course Yankee fans will call him Mickey Jr.
Now onto Horne.
I don't know where you are getting your prospect info from but NO analyst I've read has him projected any higher than a #4 starter. Plus he is coming off an injury...
Straight from the 2007 Minor League Baseball Analyst...Alan Horne projects as a #5 starter and his rating is 7E. 7 being average and E meaning he has a TEN PERCENT chance of actually hitting his potential.
Contrast that with a Hughes' projection of a #1 starter with a rating of 9B Nine being an elite player and B meaning he has a 70-80% chance of reaching his potential.
Horne has two plus pitches in his FB and his cutter. His changeup is average and he doesn't hide it well. Perhaps that will change with experience, but sorry.....he's not a #2. He did have a nice season in Trenton...I will give you that.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not knocking your players, they are decent(with the exception of Hughes of course)....but I'm just saying that what you are offering is nothing special. The Twins will probably take it...and basically that has them standing in place...they replace Santana for Hughes(if he pans out to his potential) and that's why they are not winning anything any time soon.

You answered your own question on teams willing to pay him....
If the Twins said...you know what?.....the Yanks and Sox aren't bucking up....We'll take so and so for Santana...say any combination of Pelfrey/Martinez/Humber/Mulvey from the Mets or Elbert/Kershaw/Loney from the Dodgers or Wood/Adenhart/Arredondo from the Angels, you don't think those teams would be willing to pay Santana? Heck...the Cubs might even pay and offer Veal/Pie and Gallagher to snag Santana....

M.K.
Knight165

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Denard Span blows btw.

[Knight165]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Yeah...the Twins really look constrained.....hopefully the can remain RESTRAINED........not even a week after practically calling Hughes and Ellsbury out of the conversation and both teams are already giving in....

M.K.
Knight165