Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

[Picci]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I'm starting to believe Mets fans now. They were all hammering Omar Minaya has promised to acquire Johan Santana, and the only thing that was stopping them was their reluctance to include Reyes. Now that I'm hearing Jose Reyes might be included, I pretty much expect Johan in NY. If not in Bronx, then in Queens. Heilman/Milledge/Reyes should do it.

Not going to happen. Mets said no thank you and are turning their attention to other possibilities. However, ESPN is reporting that the BOSox and Twins are getting closer to a deal.

[bergie56]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Not going to happen. Mets said no thank you and are turning their attention to other possibilities. However, ESPN is reporting that the BOSox and Twins are getting closer to a deal.

What are the parts/pieces?

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

ESPN is probably recycling "Shooter's" trash.

[Picci]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

What are the parts/pieces?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3133598

[wang_chi7]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

ESPN is probably recycling "Shooter's" trash.

Lets hope so, as I don't like the proposed deal. Lester is a good pitcher and all, but Crisp is pretty average. I don't know anything about the minor leaguers though, can someone shed some light?

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Lowrie(23 years old) is a very good prospect at 2B/SS/3B. He plays defense very well at all of the positions, and he is a pretty good hitter. He was touted more highly than Pedroia for a while. Then he had a couple years where he just bombed in the pros, but he finally put it all together this past season and did what everyone has been expecting him to do. He won't be some all-time great, but he certainly has all-star potential. (14hr in 497AB in the minors this past season)

Bowden(21 years old), he has ALWAYS been touted more highly than Buchholz, until this past August or so. He is 2 years younger, with similar stats to what Buchholz did this past season. His pitching arsenal is nearly identical, and he has pretty good command for a young guy.

Now... If we get into Masterson(22 years old)... I would rather not include him in the deal. I would rather send Bowden than Masterson. Bowden will be a more complete pitcher than Masterson(if they both mature to where they are expected to), but Masterson has an absolutely ridiculous sinker. At one point, after he had been promoted to AA this past season, he had 48K, all 48 of them were swinging. That should tell you a little bit about how much his pitches move.

[CMH]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

My god, if the Red Sox get Santana the AL East is set for the next decade.

[Misfit]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I've seen Masterson pitch live for Portland, and I wasn't floored by him. By no means should he be considered off-limits in a deal for Johan Santana. He's a sinker/slider guy with good sink but not a power sinker the likes of Brandon Webb, Ching-Ming Wang, or Kevin Brown.

I don't buy the report that the Twins are willing to take a quartet of Crips, Lester, Lowrie, and Bowden/Masterson because if they were the deal would be done. That seems too good to be true.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The deal wouldn't be done. Even if they agreed to it, the Sox would have to negotiate with Santana before the deal ever became official.

And I'm not saying he should be off-limits, as I would do that deal with either of those pitchers for Santana. I just think he is going to be a very dominating sinkerball pitcher. The guy strikes out over a batter per inning, so yea, I'd say you could classify him as a power sinker pitcher.

He may opnly throw low to mid nineties, but his bite is late and hard.

I'd just prefer we keep Masterson as I see him being a great compliment to two/three flamethrowers.

[Misfit]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Terrible. I can't understand why Twins fans care at all. Why support them if the guys in charge will turn around and piss in your face? I wouldn't give those guys a dime of my money if I lived there.

It looks like this is going to happen in the next few weeks, and it's really not good for baseball at all. I wish the Dodgers or Angels grew some nads and actually moved one of their crappy, overhyped prospects destined for failure. How many years do we all have to hear about how great these teams prospects are, yet they never do anything with these kids? Moreno and McCourt need to grow some sack for once and make a splash. Boston and New York shouldn't always grab the salary dumps.

I could swallow Johan on the West Coast, but not in the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry.

I agree with you. As much as the Sox fan in me is salivating over the idea of a Beckett/Santana/Matsuzaka/Buchholz rotation for the next 6-7 years, the baseball fan in me is crying foul. There really aren't many examples like this where a team refuses to spend the money to keep their incredible player that can actually afford the player. Some would argue the Marlins did the same after the '97 and '03 championships, but neither of those teams had a player the caliber of Johan Santana. And it's also a shame the Twins ruined any chance at a home discount from Santana by ticking the guy off by not trying to win.

And it also is annoying how both LA teams seem content to try to build teams like they're in a small market and plug holes with aging veterans. However I don't blame them for not throwing money at this year's free agent crop (or last year's) but you'd think both would be chomping at the bit to add a guy like Santana to their rotation. Especially considering both teams play in divisions where one player of Santana's make completely swings the pendulum in their direction.

[Misfit]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The deal wouldn't be done. Even if they agreed to it, the Sox would have to negotiate with Santana before the deal ever became official.

And I'm not saying he should be off-limits, as I would do that deal with either of those pitchers for Santana. I just think he is going to be a very dominating sinkerball pitcher. The guy strikes out over a batter per inning, so yea, I'd say you could classify him as a power sinker pitcher.

He may opnly throw low to mid nineties, but his bite is late and hard.

I'd just prefer we keep Masterson as I see him being a great compliment to two/three flamethrowers.

More like high 80's to low 90's. Granted I saw one start but he never hit higher than 91 and his off-speed stuff was mediocre. I see him as a guy who had a lot of initial success when getting promoted and then leveled off. I'd be surprised if he ever became more than a middle to end of the rotation guy.

[rsox]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

And it also is annoying how both LA teams seem content to try to build teams like they're in a small market and plug holes with aging veterans. However I don't blame them for not throwing money at this year's free agent crop (or last year's) but you'd think both would be chomping at the bit to add a guy like Santana to their rotation. Especially considering both teams play in divisions where one player of Santana's make completely swings the pendulum in their direction.

I wouldn't say giving Torii Hunter $90 million isn't throwing money around. Add John Garland's $12 million for this season plus the cash they sent to the White Sox with Orlando Cabrera and the Angels are already saying they are over their planned "budget" for next season. And they are trying to acquire Miguel Tejada who is owed $26 million over the next 2 seasons, which i doubt the Orioles will pay much, if any of. The Angels are as guilty as anyone when it comes to throwing money around (see Gary Matthews Jr,'s $50 million dollar contract last winter).

As for the Dodgers, they spend money-they just spend it stupidly ($15 million per year for Jason Schmidt).

Both teams may be chomping at the bit to add someone like Santana but they are not willing to give up whatever it takes to get him. Under Arte Moreno the Angels have refused to trade any of their "prospects", which is why i laughed at an Angels front office employee when she said they were trying to get Adam Dunn from the Reds. Moreno has already publicly blasted the Marlins for asking for 3 major leaguers and a minor leaguer in return for Miguel Cabrera.

Ned Coletti has also said this offseason that he can't believe what teams are asking for in return in any trade.

I don't think either understand that when trying to make a trade, in the case of the Angels: when you are trying to get a young star player from a team that does not actually have to trade him, it will cost you. And in the case of the Dodgers: when you try and make trades with small market teams the small market team is going to want your best young players in return, not your aging crap.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Moreno has already publicly blasted the Marlins for asking for 3 major leaguers and a minor leaguer in return for Miguel Cabrera.

Ned Coletti has also said this offseason that he can't believe what teams are asking for in return in any trade.

This could be reason #1 why these teams are not winning the World Series soon. These guys don't understand that you do what it takes to obtain the best players in the game. Those players are well worth their cost in terms of dollars and talent surrendered.

The mistake teams like the Angels and Dodgers make is they aren't willing to go balls to the wall to get the best players, yet they (relatively) overpay for questionable guys like Jason Schmidt, Gary Matthews, and Torii Hunter.

They can't see that:

Having Johan Santana or Miguel Cabrera is better than keeping ALL their questionable prospects and paying Gary Matthews or Jason Schmidt more than they are worth.

If you can surround guys like Santana or Cabrera with cheaper replacements or minor leaguers, it is a lot better than relying on guys like Jason Schmidt.

Fortunately, Theo Epstein recognizes the value of elite talent, and that is one of the big reasons why the Red Sox look so good going forward.

[NYJets]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Mike (Manchester, NH): Hi Jason...Does it appear the Red Sox have enough to get Santana with an offer of Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Jew Lowrie, and Justin Masterson? The Yankees offer seems less likely?

<!-- displayed mode --> Jayson Stark: (1:02 PM ET ) What I keep hearing is no. The Twins want two out Boston's "big three" -- which is Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury and Ckay Buchholz. Unless they include Ellsbury or Buchholz in their package, I don't see the Twins budging -- at least for now.

Brett, MN: Why doesnt Bill Smith shop Johan more to the Mets? Wouldn't you want to get him the hell out of the AL?

<!-- displayed mode --> Jayson Stark: (1:04 PM ET ) They HAVE "shopped" him to the Mets. The Mets couldn't be more interested. But the Twins aren't as high on the Mets' young guys as they are on what they're being offered elsewhere. And the Mets might have trouble giving Santana the years he's looking for in an extension, since the Wilpons have a five-year limit on contracts for pitchers. But it seems to me every case should be evaluated separately. Four years for Pedro might have been more dangerous than six or seven years for Santana.

<!-- displayed mode --><hr noshade="noshade" size="1" width="80%">Mike (Dallas, TX): Appears that the Twins are in a "sit and spin" mode with the Red Sox currently. If the trade is pulled off, do you foresee Crisp being flipped to another team?

<!-- displayed mode --> Jayson Stark: (1:07 PM ET ) I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "sit and spin." That sounds like something my washing machine does. But I think you have the right idea. The Twins are taking a hard line on this for now. The team that gives up what they want -- Yankees, Red Sox or someone else -- can have him right now, or at least have him to open a negotiating window. If they don't get their two young star-caliber players, they'll hold tight, go to the winter meetings and see what happens. Only if everybody balks would they go for plan B. I don't see them trading for Crisp so they can spin him somewhere else right now. They're still stuck on Ellsbury or no deal, from what I can tell.

mike (boston: So if the Red Sox offer Jacoby Ellsbury and Jon Lester to the Twins; Johan Santana would be a Red Sox today? Or would they need to add more prospects like Lowrie and Masterson, even to an Ellsbury centered package?

<!-- displayed mode --> Jayson Stark: (1:34 PM ET ) There would have to be at least one more lesser player, possibly two. Depends on who they are. Again, that's my understanding.

<!-- displayed mode --><hr noshade="noshade" size="1" width="80%">Eric (Flint, MI): Is their a way to keep Phil Hughes out of a deal? Maybe by including 2 of these 3 - Horne, Sanchez, and McCuthen as well Kennedy, Melky, and Tabata.

<!-- displayed mode --> Jayson Stark: (1:36 PM ET ) Honestly? I don't think so. If the Yankees say yes on Hughes, they can make this trade today. I really believe that. But they're still debating whether they want to do that, from what other clubs are telling me.

[dust247]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I, like many Twins fans, will be very disappointed with any trade that involves Coco Crisp. I don't see why anyone would trade for this guy. How is he an improvement over what we already have? Yeah he has a good glove, but last time I checked, making spectacular catches in the field doesn't put runs on the scoreboard. It may take off a few runs from your opponents, but if you can't score, you're not going to win games anyways.

If I'm Bill Smith, I don't accept any trade offer from the Red Sox that doesn't include at least two of these three players; Ellsbury, Lester, and Buchholz.

As far as the Yankees are concerned, anything less than Cano/Cabrera and Hughes will be a disappointment.

I must admit though, I'm satisfied with the job GM Bill Smith has done so far. I'm hoping the trade with the Rays is only a sign of things to come.