Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I'm torn by the trade. On one hand we get one of the top pitchers in the MLB and he finally gives our staff a true ace. Plus with what Posada was saying yesterday, it's unlikely at this point that Pettitte will be back for next season, so the Yankees needed to fill that role with a left handed starter.

On the other hand I'm going to hate to see Hughes go. He's been one of the lone superstar pitching prospects to come through our farm in the past decade and I think that over the course of his career he'll end up being better than Joba and Kennedy.

Don't really mind parting with Cabrera though, as I was never too high on him in the first place and the Yankees have Jackson and Tabata coming through the minors who could be up as early as 2009. I just hope that Jackson won't be one of the other prospects included in the trade.

Have to give up a potential stud to pick up a star I guess.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Don't really mind parting with Cabrera though, as I was never too high on him in the first place and the Yankees have Jackson and Tabata coming through the minors who could be up as early as 2009. I just hope that Jackson won't be one of the other prospects included in the trade.

I expect one of Jackson or Tabata to be included. They were already likely on the table; I doubt they get taken off just because Hughes was added in.

I think if the Yankees gets Santana, it's a superb move for them. Hughes will likely never be as good as Santana currently is. It is possible he will, but it's the great unknown vs. the proven, known commodity. The Yankees never, ever choose the high upside potential over a known great entity.

I think some people in here recognize how good Santana is, but surprisingly it seems a lot of Yankee fans don't. Probably a combination of drinking too much of the kool-aid about prospects moving through the system AND being burned many times this decade on big name pitchers like Kevin Brown, Jose Contreras, Javier Vazquez, Randy Johnson, et al.

Santana is MUCH better than all those bozos. You are pretty much guaranteed 200-220 innings of sheer awesomeness. Almost a lock for 200 strikeouts every year. Insane WHIP. Mind numbing K/BB ratio. This guy is a legitimate stud. It's like getting LaDainian Tomlinson for baseball..

[Gary Armida]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I think some people in here recognize how good Santana is, but surprisingly it seems a lot of Yankee fans don't. Probably a combination of drinking too much of the kool-aid about prospects moving through the system AND being burned many times this decade on big name pitchers like Kevin Brown, Jose Contreras, Javier Vazquez, Randy Johnson, et al.

Santana is MUCH better than all those bozos. You are pretty much guaranteed 200-220 innings of sheer awesomeness. Almost a lock for 200 strikeouts every year. Insane WHIP. Mind numbing K/BB ratio. This guy is a legitimate stud. It's like getting LaDainian Tomlinson for baseball..

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Many Yankee fans are nervous about another star coming in and blowing up. I don't think that Johan would have a problem. He is the best pitcher in the game.

There is a part of me that would relish the underdog role if they kept the prospects. Watching "the kids" was my favorite part of last season. It hasn't been that way in a while.

Plus, deep down, I think the Sox are bluffing as are the Twins--they can't take Coco Crisp in a deal for Johan!

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I agree with that. I would love to have Santana on our pitching staff, he's the best pitcher in baseball.

The one thing I don't like though is the start of the Hank Steinbrenner regime. First, he overpays for A-Rod when no other team was offering him anything close to that money. Now he panics and throws Hughes in the trade because he hears reports of the Red Sox offer not even knowing if the Twins were even willing to accept it.

That and the fact that even though Santana is one of the top pitchers we'll be paying him $25 million a year instead of having Hughes cost controlled for the next couple of seasons.

[The C]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

This thread makes me sad.

It's nothing but crying about how Yankee fans will just have to deal with getting the best pitcher in baseball to go along with their best positional player in baseball.

You guys are getting ****ing Santana! And in a few years you can finally call C.C. up from Cleveland and give him a huge deal that Cleveland will be unable to match.

Besides, if Hughes does break out, you guys can just trade for him back in a few years.

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

There is a part of me that would relish the underdog role if they kept the prospects. Watching "the kids" was my favorite part of last season. It hasn't been that way in a while.

Yeah, that's a part of it also. It's fun rooting for guys like Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy hoping they turn into studs and are able to frontline the pitching staff for the next decade.

Although having Santana and potentially Jones or Rowand or whoever the Yankees choose to fill CF with will give the Yankees a better chance of winning the World Series in the next few years than Hughes and Cabrera would.

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

This thread makes me sad.

It's nothing but crying about how Yankee fans will just have to deal with getting the best pitcher in baseball to go along with their best positional player in baseball.

You guys are getting ****ing Santana! And in a few years you can finally call C.C. up from Cleveland and give him a huge deal that Cleveland will be unable to match.

Besides, if Hughes does break out, you guys can just trade for him back in a few years.

The Indians can counter the Yankees huge offer with a lifetime supply of sandwiches or something. Would make it a very tough decision for C.C.

[The C]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The Indians can counter the Yankees huge offer with a lifetime supply of sandwiches or something. Would make it a very tough decision for C.C.

There aren't enough...there weren't enough for Jimmy. There weren't enough for Manny. And there won't be enough for C.C.

Screw you jerks and your big markets and fancy owners who spend money.

[NYJets]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

The one thing I don't like though is the start of the Hank Steinbrenner regime. First, he overpays for A-Rod when no other team was offering him anything close to that money. Now he panics and throws Hughes in the trade because he hears reports of the Red Sox offer not even knowing if the Twins were even willing to accept it.

That and the fact that even though Santana is one of the top pitchers we'll be paying him $25 million a year instead of having Hughes cost controlled for the next couple of seasons.

Exactly.

I have very little doubt that Santana will continue to be the best pitcher in baseball for the next few years.

But I think we could have got him without giving up Hughes, imo the best of the 3 rookie pitchers we have. And I'm guessing the 3rd player in the deal will be either Jackson or Tabata.


And yea, maybe I am biased, I have been following basically every start Hughes has made over the last 3 years. And now after all the excitement he's going to be gone. But I still think we are giving up way too much, at least at this point.

[spyder23]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

No No no and NO you dumb jacka$$ Hank!!(and this deal has Hank written ALL over it) Jesus, this is a mistake! I dont care if it is Johan Effing Santana. The price the Yankees are going to pay is way, way, way too high. Hughes and other prospects ON TOP of the contract that he will command??? He is nearing 30, had his worst year in 2007 since he became an elite pitcher(still good, yes, but not his usual Johan numbers), and Phil Hughes is just 21 years old and is soooo much more cheaper.

Keep the damn kids you idiots! I am so sick of this crap. Yes we have been burned. I'm sick of Kevin Browns, Carl Milano(Pavano is a girl so he gets his ex gf Alyssa's name), Jeff Weavers, Randy Johnson, when will it end!?! The Yankees farm system hasnt looked this good since the early 90s, and look what was the result of that. A friggin dynasty.

If this deal goes down, I am telling you now, it will be one of the biggest mistakes this organization has made. I am not "drinking the kool-aid" on Hughes. Its about RECOGNIZING TALENT. You can either do that, or you cant. Apparently, the Yankees and Hank the Skank can't. I realize you gotta give something to get something, but not this time. No way, no how.

PS...And for all the carrying on I just did about Hughes, Joba Chamberlain will be even better. He is the true gem of the 3 young arms. Hence his "untouchable" status by the Yankees.

[Mr.Burns]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

and Phil Hughes is just 21 years old and is soooo much more cheaper.

Is this even an issue with the Yanks?
I understand the fans hate to lose Hughes, but with Boston being at the top now, we needed a #1 pitcher to cancel out Josh Beckett (which was acquired for a hefty price too). Besides, we're getting Johan Santana, why are you even complaining? Seeing as how the Twinkies wanted Hughes AND Cano initially, consider ourselves lucky.
I liked Hughes, thought he's going to be the next version of Andy Pettitte, but I'll take Johan over him any day of the week.
P.S. Under no condition did I want to see Johan in Beantown. Great to see Hank show some initiative. I see he picked up something from his dad already. This time it's a virtue, but the next, we just hope it's the same story.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Yikes...I am going to be nauseous at the sight of Johan in pinstripes. Ugh. This is terrible.

I just bought myself an extra large barf bag, should hold me over for the next 7 years.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I think some people in here recognize how good Santana is, but surprisingly it seems a lot of Yankee fans don't. Probably a combination of drinking too much of the kool-aid about prospects moving through the system AND being burned many times this decade on big name pitchers like Kevin Brown, Jose Contreras, Javier Vazquez, Randy Johnson, et al.

Santana is MUCH better than all those bozos. You are pretty much guaranteed 200-220 innings of sheer awesomeness. Almost a lock for 200 strikeouts every year. Insane WHIP. Mind numbing K/BB ratio. This guy is a legitimate stud. It's like getting LaDainian Tomlinson for baseball..

No doubt about that.

Per Jason Stark's blog:

It seems like a ridiculous question: How great is Johan Santana?

But as the Yankees and Red Sox spend every waking moment attempting to outduel each other for the right to pay this man $150-160 million, we thought we'd ask it anyway:

How great, how dominating, is Johan Santana?

So we took a look at his totally insane numbers. Let's start with this:

• Santana has now led the American League in fewest baserunners allowed per nine innings in four straight seasons. So who else, you ask, has done that?

How about nobody?

Lefty Grove led the AL in that category for three straight years, from 1930-32. But that's as close as anyone gets in that league.

In the National League, only two pitchers ever did it four years in a row -- Carl Hubbell (1931-34) and Sandy Koufax (1962-65). And that's the whole list.

Pretty good group. Over the last 70 years, it's Santana and Koufax. Period.

• But over those same four seasons, Santana has also finished either first or second in the league in strikeouts. (And it could easily be four first-place finishes in a row, if rain hadn't forced him to exit early in his final start this year.)

And that's where Santana separates himself from Koufax and Hubbell.

Koufax slipped to fourth in strikeouts in 1964. Hubbell tumbled to sixth in whiffs in 1934.

So Santana is the only pitcher in history to run off a four-year stretch combining that kind of strikeout domination while allowing so few baserunners to run around.

What about Pedro Martinez? Just missed. He was first or second in strikeouts every year from 1997-2000, but he fell to third in baserunners per nine innings in 1998. No other active pitcher is even in the discussion.

• Over these last four years, Santana has averaged more than a strikeout an inning, pitched at least 219 innings in every season and piled up at least 4.5 whiffs for every walk in each of those years. Let's put that in perspective.

The only other pitcher in history to do that four straight seasons was Randy Johnson (from 1999-2002).

Just one other pitcher in the history of baseball has ever even done that more than one year in a row -- Curt Schilling (two).

So no American League pitcher has ever had more than one season like that in a row. Not Nolan Ryan. Not Roger Clemens. Not Pedro. Nobody. Amazing.

• Now here's the final thing that astounds us about Santana: He has better numbers as a starter than a lot of closers -- even great closers -- have pitching one inning at a time. Check this out.

CAREER STRIKEOUTS PER 9 INNINGS
Santana 9.50
J.J. Putz 9.14
Huston Street 9.14
Joe Nathan 9.10
Mariano Rivera 8.09

OPPONENT ON-BASE PCT.
Santana .273
Troy Percival .277
Putz .281
Nathan .288
Eric Gagne .290
Bobby Jenks .294
Brad Lidge .304
Jason Isringhausen .317

So is he worth the blood, the sweat, the lost sleep, the money and the kind of players it's going to take to pry him away from the Twins? If you think he's not, reread those numbers and get back to us.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I understand that Johan has been brilliant... But there has never been, and will never be, a pitcher as dominating as Pedro at his prime. They picked and named certain things that he has Pedro beat in, but Pedro has him beat in plenty more.

Pedro(in his prime) will likely be the most dominating pitcher any of us will ever see in our lifetimes.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Pedro(in his prime) will likely be the most dominating pitcher any of us will ever see in our lifetimes.

No arguments here.