Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

[snepp]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

Presented without further comment, because I'm too lazy, something I posted elsewhere.

Rios typical BABIP: .330

Rios 2009 BABIP: .295

Walk, strikeout, and home run rates unchanged.

Looks more like a case of crappy luck than steady decline to me.


*edit*

If his BABIP were at an expected level his line would look like this: .291/.342/.461

[Dice]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

I didn't realize we were taking attitude into account here. If you weigh that, then Bradley would be the worst outfielder. But Bradley still produces and that's what we're talking about here.

I realize Bradley has batted lower in the lineup because of his average and lack of production. That's why I pointed out that it's a bad year for him. A really bad year and you know this is not like Bradley. This is ridiculously bad for even him.

Pointing out the batting spots was to show you that Rios has more RBI because he was batting third for most of the season when the Blue Jays were scoring a bunch of runs. I'm not going to get into why RBI are mostly based on team performance over individual performance.

There's no hate for Rios. There's only reality.

When you made the statement of, "Bradley has been more productive than Rios", I just wanted to know, 'In what time?'

It can't be this year because the number would support Rios. You can crunch team numbers all day and the numbers will go in Rios favor. But we can even take it back a year when Bradley was in Texas and he only could muster 77 RBI's with guys like Kinsler, Young and Hamilton batting in front of him? Yeah, you can say that Hamilton cleaned up the bases before it got to Bradley but explain why Young, who is the number 2 hitter, had more RBI's than Bradley, who was their clean up hitter?

Now if you ask me if Rios is highly overpaid, then my answer would be yes. BUT I can name a number of guys in baseball who's highly overpaid, namely Milton Bradley! What Rios gives you is not stuff that $10 million dollar/year players should be giving you but more like a guy who should be making about $1 million/year. However, Bradley gives you stats that a recent call up from AAA would give you.

[Ewing]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

OK. This is ridiculous. Nick Swisher? Garrett Jones? Ryan Sweeney? I get it. You hate Alex Rios. Right?

Swisher gets on base a boat load, Jones has been killing the ball since hitting the majors and Sweeney is a tremendous defensive outfielder. I don't have anything against Alex Rios, I just think the guy has completely dropped off and I'd much rather take guys who are producing this year.

[snepp]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

Again, something I posted elsewhere, in reference to Jones.

Since hitting his 10th homer in 19 games, the tall one has produced the following line in 16 games (69 PA):

.242 .319 .419 .738 - 2 HR

That looks awfully similar to his minor league line and probably about what you would expect out of him.

Not to mention he has NO business in a major league outfield, or any outfield for that matter.

[Ewing]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

I appreciate the research (both the BABIP and Jones logs), snepp. While Jones has hit a cold streak for 16 or so games, Rios has hit a cold streak for the whole damn season. I have no problem if you wanna say Rios is better and you would rather have him, I'm just basing this off of production this season.

[snepp]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

While Jones has hit a cold streak for 16 or so games, Rios has hit a cold streak for the whole damn season.

I don't think it's really much of a cold streak for Jones, more like a closer representation of his true talent level.

I have no problem if you wanna say Rios is better and you would rather have him, I'm just basing this off of production this season.

I'm focusing entirely at what's going to happen moving forward, so that would tend to lead to a vastly different opinion.

[Ewing]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

I'm focusing entirely at what's going to happen moving forward, so that would tend to lead to a vastly different opinion.

If we're going on moving forward, Rios is probably about 15 or so among right fielders for me.

[snepp]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

I think I'd be closer to coug's 10-12 area, but that's just picking nits.

It'll be interesting to see if they give him a chance to be a full-time center fielder. If he can put up an .800 OPS while playing adequate defense there that would increase his value a bit.

(not so much that his own value would increase, but that it would open up an easier-to-fill corner spot)

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

I'm assuming then that you have.

Can you please explain to me why he [sucks] then? Shouldn't a guy that is actually a good player play like a good player and not just look like a good player?

Or is that how we evaluate talent today? If he looks like he's a good ballplayer then he must be. Hmm, I think I'll take the stats. You know, the one thing that actually puts it all together and tells you what a player did.

I'm not the one saying he sucks. I'm saying he's had a couple of mediocre seasons, ontop of an otherwise solid career. He appears to be a guy who's slumping mentally, but has all of the tools.

1. Ichiro Suzuki
2. Shin-Soo Choo
3. Justin Upton
4. Bobby Abreu
5. Brad Hawpe
6. Andre Ethier
7. Jayson Werth
8. Nelson Cruz
9. Nick Markakis
10. Jermaine Dye
11. Hunter Pence
12. Ryan Ludwick
13. J.D. Drew
14. Milton Bradley

No. Milton Bradley? JD Drew? Ryan Ludwick? Not to mention a number of these guys who have put up similar stats to Rios, yet aren't as good defensively. Or someone like Nelson Cruz who's never been good but has suddenly had one decent season.

15. Josh Willingham
16. Nick Swisher
17. Ryan Sweeney
18. Michael Cuddyer
19. Kosuke Fukudome
20. Garrett Jones
21. Jay Bruce
22. Ben Zobrist - if he counts

There, we hit the list of twenty.

No, you didn't hit the list of 20, because this right here is downright absurd.

Josh Willingham isn't even a Right Fielder. Neither is Ben Zobrist. Garrett Jones hasn't even played half a season, and hit 10 HR's in a complete fluke, and is now a terrible player and even worse outfielder. Ryan Sweeney? Good god. Some of these names are just laughable, like I knew they would be. Nick Swisher struggles to hit .240 every year, and isn't a very good outfielder out at all, you're going to blast Rios about his hitting though. Fukudome?


This basically boils down to what I said. The stats you go by are just as misleading as any other stat you can find, unless you're going to sit here with a straight face and tell us that if you had a baseball team you would want Garrett Jones in RF instead of Alex Rios, and if you did that then...wow.

Rios falls exactly where I said he does. Maybe he's not top 10, but he's certainly not bottom 20. With the way he's played the past few seasons, he's middle of the pack, which isn't the worst thing in the world. If a guy in an off season still isn't a terrible player, that's a promising thing. And he can still turn it around, provided he's just in the middle of mental mistakes, and then he becomes a top 10 kind of guy again. It's worth the risk.

[CMH]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

But he won't be a top 10 right fielder. And he won't ever be worth his contract. That's really my point.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

Who the hell is worth their contract? Major League Baseball is an embarrassment in this economy. You have players raking in 20+ million dollars in a ****ing year. One player will make that much money. I don't understand this emphasis put on Alex Rios' contract, as if 10 million dollars a season was so much money or something, considering the state the MLB is in when it comes to contracts. Soooooo many bad to awful players make that. The market for pitchers alone, a bad pitcher is going to make 5 million a year. Zito's contract will have forever destroyed the market.

If you have the money to pay for his contract, then who gives a ****? Is the acquiring of Alex Rios while not giving up anything but money to pay his contract in return going to bury the White Sox franchise if he doesn't turn his game around? No. Carl Pavano made that much money to watch other players play for four years in NY. Eric Gagne made that much last year for the Brewers. Andy Pettite makes more than that to be as effective as a number 5 starter. Carlos Silva makes that much for an 8 ERA.

His contract is not that bad. It's a little much for him, provided he doesn't turn it around, but it's not some kind of horrible contract like Zito. He's not a ridiculously overpaid player, like some. There's a LOT more overpaid players in the MLB than Alex Rios. It's mainly in the years, not the actual money. I think it's incredibly stupid to sign any player to 7 year contracts, unless they are the elite of the elite like an Albert Pujols.

[Dice]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

Who the hell is worth their contract? Major League Baseball is an embarrassment in this economy. You have players raking in 20+ million dollars in a ****ing year. One player will make that much money. I don't understand this emphasis put on Alex Rios' contract, as if 10 million dollars a season was so much money or something, considering the state the MLB is in when it comes to contracts. Soooooo many bad to awful players make that. The market for pitchers alone, a bad pitcher is going to make 5 million a year. Zito's contract will have forever destroyed the market.

If you have the money to pay for his contract, then who gives a ****? Is the acquiring of Alex Rios while not giving up anything but money to pay his contract in return going to bury the White Sox franchise if he doesn't turn his game around? No. Carl Pavano made that much money to watch other players play for four years in NY. Eric Gagne made that much last year for the Brewers. Andy Pettite makes more than that to be as effective as a number 5 starter. Carlos Silva makes that much for an 8 ERA.

His contract is not that bad. It's a little much for him, provided he doesn't turn it around, but it's not some kind of horrible contract like Zito. He's not a ridiculously overpaid player, like some. There's a LOT more overpaid players in the MLB than Alex Rios. It's mainly in the years, not the actual money. I think it's incredibly stupid to sign any player to 7 year contracts, unless they are the elite of the elite like an Albert Pujols.

Excellent Post!

[CMH]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

How is that an excellent point?

It's rather silly to argue that someone isn't worth their contract because everyone makes so much money. The market allows for that money so comparing MLB salaries to regular working job salaries is ridiculous. It's not the same.

You can only compare salaries to each other. Alex Rios, in comparison to other right fielders in the game, is not worth his salary. Throwing the "everyone is overpaid" card is side stepping the discussion.

[Dice]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

How is that an excellent point?

It's rather silly to argue that someone isn't worth their contract because everyone makes so much money. The market allows for that money so comparing MLB salaries to regular working job salaries is ridiculous. It's not the same.

You can only compare salaries to each other. Alex Rios, in comparison to other right fielders in the game, is not worth his salary. Throwing the "everyone is overpaid" card is side stepping the discussion.

He didn't say 'everyone'. He said 'There's a LOT more overpaid players'. There is a difference.

And when did he compare the salaries of MLB players to regular working people?

[CMH]

Re: Waiver claim placed on Alex Rios

By saying "who is worth their salary" and calling "MLB an embarrassment in this economy" he is comparing dollars to regular working salaries.