Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • WaitTilNextYear
    Go Cubs Go
    • Mar 2013
    • 16830

    #1786
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    Tony Oliva - no (not really close to any benchmarks)
    Dick Allen - no (I needed a couple of more full seasons out of him...his rate stats are great especially for his era)
    Mike Mussina - yes
    Kevin Brown - yes

    By the way, compare Kevin Brown to Curt Schilling--Schilling's got some better /9 stats, but otherwise they are very comparable.
    Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

    Comment

    • WaitTilNextYear
      Go Cubs Go
      • Mar 2013
      • 16830

      #1787
      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

      Some more names to chew on...

      Matt Williams
      Will Clark
      Luis Tiant
      Vida Blue
      Sal Bando
      Ron Guidry
      Chuck Finley
      Darrell Evans
      Frank Tanana
      David Cone
      Brian Downing
      Jimmy Wynn
      Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

      Comment

      • DrJones
        All Star
        • Mar 2003
        • 9109

        #1788
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        Originally posted by DamnYanks2
        Why is Andruw Jones included in there? Im curious. I thought he was always pretty well liked and had a smile on his face most of the time.

        Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk
        Because Andruw got fat and was perceived by many as lazy and an underachiever. (Threatening his wife and the Gold Club stuff didn't help.)

        I'm not saying Jones would sail in otherwise. His resume definitely has some big holes in it. But a dude who hits 434 HR while being arguably the best defensive CF of all time only gets 7% of the vote?
        Originally posted by Thrash13
        Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
        Originally posted by slickdtc
        DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
        Originally posted by Kipnis22
        yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

        Comment

        • DrJones
          All Star
          • Mar 2003
          • 9109

          #1789
          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

          Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
          Tony Oliva - no (not really close to any benchmarks)
          Dick Allen - no (I needed a couple of more full seasons out of him...his rate stats are great especially for his era)
          Mike Mussina - yes
          Kevin Brown - yes

          By the way, compare Kevin Brown to Curt Schilling--Schilling's got some better /9 stats, but otherwise they are very comparable.
          The moral of Kevin Brown's story is, if you're widely regarded as a dick, don't lay a stink-bomb for the Yankees in a Game 7.
          Originally posted by Thrash13
          Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
          Originally posted by slickdtc
          DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
          Originally posted by Kipnis22
          yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

          Comment

          • DamnYanks2
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jun 2007
            • 20794

            #1790
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
            Some more names to chew on...

            Matt Williams
            Will Clark
            Luis Tiant
            Vida Blue
            Sal Bando
            Ron Guidry
            Chuck Finley
            Darrell Evans
            Frank Tanana
            David Cone
            Brian Downing
            Jimmy Wynn
            They all scream Hall of very good to me except... Cases are definitely to be made for Will Clark, David Cone, and Tiant.

            I believe I'd choose Tiant out of that group.


            Larry Walker I feel should be in too. Coors effect be damned.

            Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

            Comment

            • DamnYanks2
              Hall Of Fame
              • Jun 2007
              • 20794

              #1791
              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

              Originally posted by DrJones
              Because Andruw got fat and was perceived by many as lazy and an underachiever. (Threatening his wife and the Gold Club stuff didn't help.)

              I'm not saying Jones would sail in otherwise. His resume definitely has some big holes in it. But a dude who hits 434 HR while being arguably the best defensive CF of all time only gets 7% of the vote?
              Yea it's absurd. He was good enough for me. I'd put him in.

              Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • Majingir
                Moderator
                • Apr 2005
                • 47671

                #1792
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Will Cito Gaston ever get in to the HOF? How does a guy who won multiple WS(back to back) and being the first African American coach in MLB history to win a WS not get him into the HOF already?

                Comment

                • DrJones
                  All Star
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 9109

                  #1793
                  Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                  Originally posted by Majingir
                  Will Cito Gaston ever get in to the HOF? How does a guy who won multiple WS(back to back) and being the first African American coach in MLB history to win a WS not get him into the HOF already?
                  No. Cito has 150 fewer wins than any other HOF manager. He was always regarded as a good player's manager with mediocre in-game tactics who benefited from some stacked rosters. There are plenty of managers with multiple WS titles who aren't in the HOF. Tom Kelly won 250 more games and the '87 and '91 Twins were perhaps the two least likely champs in the last 30-40 years, and he's not in.
                  Originally posted by Thrash13
                  Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                  Originally posted by slickdtc
                  DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                  Originally posted by Kipnis22
                  yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                  Comment

                  • WaitTilNextYear
                    Go Cubs Go
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 16830

                    #1794
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    Originally posted by DrJones
                    The moral of Kevin Brown's story is, if you're widely regarded as a dick, don't lay a stink-bomb for the Yankees in a Game 7.
                    Too bad he and Javier Vasquez are probably most remembered for facilitating Boston's 2004 World Series appearance. Trouble is, neither played for Boston.
                    Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

                    Comment

                    • DamnYanks2
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 20794

                      #1795
                      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                      Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                      Too bad he and Javier Vasquez are probably most remembered for facilitating Boston's 2004 World Series appearance. Trouble is, neither played for Boston.
                      Ugh don't remind me of those trash cans.

                      Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk

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                      • WaitTilNextYear
                        Go Cubs Go
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 16830

                        #1796
                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        So, that's a hard no on Robinson Cano, lol.

                        He probably would've made it, too. He's at 56.5 WAR (probably would've ended north of 60 WAR), 305 HR as a 2B, .304 lifetime average, 8 ASGs, 2 GGs, 5 Silver Sluggers, and most importantly was on a World Series winning Yankees team. Oh well.
                        Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

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                        • DrJones
                          All Star
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 9109

                          #1797
                          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                          Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                          So, that's a hard no on Robinson Cano, lol.

                          He probably would've made it, too. He's at 56.5 WAR (probably would've ended north of 60 WAR), 305 HR as a 2B, .304 lifetime average, 8 ASGs, 2 GGs, 5 Silver Sluggers, and most importantly was on a World Series winning Yankees team. Oh well.
                          We'll see. If Cano plays out the rest of his contract, he'll be eligible for the HOF between 2028 and 2038. I wouldn't be surprised if BBWAA and public attitudes towards PEDs change significantly in the next 10-20 years. (Bear in mind that Bonds and Clemens are currently both north of 55%.)

                          It's almost a certainty that multiple PED users from the "steroid era" are already in the HOF, and as soon as one or more are found out, there'll be a lot of initial outrage, but that player(s) won't be kicked out. At some point, most people will shrug and say, "Well, if [insert your favourite 90s/early 2000s player here] used and made it to Cooperstown, why are we keeping out other users who were a lot better players?" It'll happen.
                          Last edited by DrJones; 05-15-2018, 02:12 PM.
                          Originally posted by Thrash13
                          Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                          Originally posted by slickdtc
                          DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                          Originally posted by Kipnis22
                          yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                          Comment

                          • WaitTilNextYear
                            Go Cubs Go
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 16830

                            #1798
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            Originally posted by DrJones
                            We'll see. If Cano plays out the rest of his contract, he'll be eligible for the HOF between 2028 and 2038. I wouldn't be surprised if BBWAA and public attitudes towards PEDs change significantly in the next 10-20 years. (Bear in mind that Bonds and Clemens are currently both north of 55%.)

                            It's almost a certainty that multiple PED users from the "steroid era" are already in the HOF, and as soon as one or more are found out, there'll be a lot of initial outrage, but that player(s) won't be kicked out. At some point, most people will shrug and say, "Well, if [insert your favourite 90s/early 2000s player here] used and made it to Cooperstown, why are we keeping out other users who were a lot better players?" It'll happen.
                            Attitudes are softening a bit on all-time greats (Bonds, Clemens) that never tested positive. Being suspended 80 games and already being a bit of a borderline case (Cano) seems like a whole different ballgame.
                            Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

                            Comment

                            • DrJones
                              All Star
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 9109

                              #1799
                              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                              Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                              Attitudes are softening a bit on all-time greats (Bonds, Clemens) that never tested positive. Being suspended 80 games and already being a bit of a borderline case (Cano) seems like a whole different ballgame.
                              Pretty small Hall if Cano is borderline.

                              But yes, you're right that this would be a huge blow to Cano's candidacy if he was up for the Hall next January. A decade or two from now?
                              Originally posted by Thrash13
                              Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                              Originally posted by slickdtc
                              DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                              Originally posted by Kipnis22
                              yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                              Comment

                              • CaseIH
                                MVP
                                • Sep 2013
                                • 3945

                                #1800
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                Originally posted by DrJones
                                We'll see. If Cano plays out the rest of his contract, he'll be eligible for the HOF between 2028 and 2038. I wouldn't be surprised if BBWAA and public attitudes towards PEDs change significantly in the next 10-20 years. (Bear in mind that Bonds and Clemens are currently both north of 55%.)

                                It's almost a certainty that multiple PED users from the "steroid era" are already in the HOF, and as soon as one or more are found out, there'll be a lot of initial outrage, but that player(s) won't be kicked out. At some point, most people will shrug and say, "Well, if [insert your favourite 90s/early 2000s player here] used and made it to Cooperstown, why are we keeping out other users who were a lot better players?" It'll happen.


                                I agree, at some point someone is getting in who has used PED's, and there is a good chance there is already someone in the HOF who cheated the game. Pudge Rodriguez, more than likely used, and some say Piazza, although I tend to believe Piazza. Where as Ivan Rodriguez didnt really deny, he just said something along the lines, of only God knows.

                                You can just about guarantee Big Papi is getting in, he is beloved, by even people who hate the Red Sox,lol. I know Ortiz is in a different situation, with his name being leaked to being on that list of 100. I also believe Papi, when he says he may very well have taken something over the counter back in the Dominican, yet still to this day, they have never told Papi what it was that triggered the test.

                                Plus were starting to getting to the point where there is ayounger group of writers doing the HOF voting, and several of them dont have the same integrity of the game mentality as previous era writers, although some of the old guard, had there issues, with how they voted, based on if they liked the player or not, depeding on how accessible they were with the media,lol.


                                It will be a sad day, when that 1st definite known user gets in, like a Bonds, but its bound to happen. My main gripe is, how can you keep Pete Rose out of the HOF, yet allow a known cheater get into the HOF. That will be what will yick me off the most. And as Reds, fan, Im fine with Pete not being in, because he did break a rule thats been on the wall of every clubhouse in baseball forever. However if you allow a known cheat, like a Bonds in, then you sure the heck better put Pete Rose in.


                                On another note, sad to see Cano was using a banned substance. When are these guys going to learn, you got to be extra careful, with anything you take, whether it be over the counter, or doctor prescribe as Cano's was. Surely these guys arent this darn stupid, to 1, not pay any attention to what they are taking, or being prescribe, and 2, actually think they can get away with it, if they are doing it knowingly.
                                Everyone who exalts themselves will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted- Luke14-11

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