Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • redsox4evur
    Hall Of Fame
    • Jul 2013
    • 18169

    #1456
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
    They all deserve to get in. Mussina has 270 wins and 200 is kind of the new 300, imo. Halladay I already made a case for. Schilling is also a yes for me, but he's struggling against himself more than anything. His personality is such that he makes it easy to not vote for him. Both Schilling and Mussina are right around 80 fWAR.

    In some ways, we have Maddux and Randy Johnson to blame. They towered so far above their peers, it was easy to see these other guys as a tier below. Add to that the backlog of players being kept out due to PEDs/suspicions of PEDs and it's been difficult to fit all the deserving guys onto 1 ballot.
    Also I feel like Schilling has that PED suspicion around him as well. Because wasn't he named in the Mitchell Report?
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    • WaitTilNextYear
      Go Cubs Go
      • Mar 2013
      • 16830

      #1457
      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

      Originally posted by redsox4evur
      Going back to Posey for a minute. Looking at his JAWS (a combination of WAR7 [7 best seasons of WAR] and WAR) he needs to improve in all categories. His peak is close to the AVG of 14 HOFers (31.8 to 34.2 respectively). His overall WAR is is 31.7 and the average is 52.7. And JAWs is is 31.8 to 43.4. So as I said earlier he keeps it up at this pace yes he is in. But if his career ended now, no.

      Also don't think we have talked about him before but what about Pedroia?
      I'm inclined to say that Pedroia is in sort of the same boat as Posey. Iconic players that will probably play their entire careers with one team. Tons of postseason success and solid enough stats. He's also got that ROY and MVP to show off.

      There are some milestones that will be important for the Laser Show...his career average is .299. What a difference another point would make. Also, his total of hits will be important. Right now he's at 1606...if he can get comfortably over 2000 (close to 2500 or even 3000), that would help. One thing Pedroia has going for him is there's more emphasis on defensive numbers than ever before and he's always been a UZR darling/Gold Glove candidate.

      Age is working against Pedroia a little bit. He'll be 33 next month and will probably lose some more speed and range (possibly be more prone to injuries). I think he needs to be a 3-5 WAR guy for another 3-4 years and then he's probably a lock. That would get him to about 60 fWAR and his star power/postseason success/grittiness/clean record would get him over the hump eventually.
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      • WaitTilNextYear
        Go Cubs Go
        • Mar 2013
        • 16830

        #1458
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        Originally posted by redsox4evur
        Also I feel like Schilling has that PED suspicion around him as well. Because wasn't he named in the Mitchell Report?
        Schilling was not implicated in the Mitchell Report. He declined an interview request for the report. As far as I know, Schilling has not been connected with PEDs beyond the "Mike Piazza back-acne" nonsense level of speculation.

        Schilling was in the news a couple of years ago for alleging that a member of the Red Sox training staff offered to use PEDs on him to help him recover from a shoulder injury in 2008. Like most everything else that comes out of Schilling's pie hole, that allegation was found to be unsubstantiated.
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        • DamnYanks2
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jun 2007
          • 20794

          #1459
          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

          I'd say C.C just misses the cut, right?

          Sent from my HTCD200LVWPP using Tapatalk

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          • H8ter2
            Banned
            • Apr 2015
            • 231

            #1460
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            Originally posted by DamnYanks2
            I'd say C.C just misses the cut, right?

            Sent from my HTCD200LVWPP using Tapatalk


            Ooh that's a hard one, I would have to say yes because of his struggles the last few years took him off the projected track he had as the next 300 wins pitcher but IDK he has some postseason success, a few dominant seasons maybe a notch under Halladay and Hernandez overall, no way he should get in if Mussina and Schilling don't though as he is surely below them


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            • Godgers12
              MVP
              • Dec 2012
              • 2265

              #1461
              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

              Originally posted by H8ter2
              Ooh that's a hard one, I would have to say yes because of his struggles the last few years took him off the projected track he had as the next 300 wins pitcher but IDK he has some postseason success, a few dominant seasons maybe a notch under Halladay and Hernandez overall, no way he should get in if Mussina and Schilling don't though as he is surely below them


              Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
              CC is a definite no. He really only had 2-3 great years the rest have been average to mediocre.
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              • Godgers12
                MVP
                • Dec 2012
                • 2265

                #1462
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Originally posted by Chip Douglass
                Felix is a pretty questionable candidate now that he's hit the wall.

                If Mussina and Schilling, two all-time great pitchers, are struggling to get in, I have a hard time seeing Felix getting in.
                Felix hasn't hit a wall yet. Lets not forget he should have won the Cy Young 2 years ago. And last season was very solid too. He's coming off his 1st lengthy DL stint of his career. I don't see him ever pulling a CC and having ERA's around 5. CC was always a thrower and as his stuff diminished he didn't adjust, Felix has.


                Also, on another note, will Sheffield, Palmiero, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Clemons ect ever get in?
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                • Sportsforever
                  NL MVP
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 20368

                  #1463
                  Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                  Originally posted by Godgers12
                  Also, on another note, will Sheffield, Palmiero, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Clemons ect ever get in?
                  Bonds, Clemens - yes

                  The rest, no...
                  "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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                  • Godgers12
                    MVP
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 2265

                    #1464
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    Did Sheffield ever do PEDs? Was it proven?
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                    If walls could talk to spill the lies, we'd see the world through devils eyes
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                    • Sportsforever
                      NL MVP
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 20368

                      #1465
                      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                      Originally posted by Godgers12
                      Did Sheffield ever do PEDs? Was it proven?
                      He worked out with Bonds and admitted to using the "cream and the clear"...I personally would take Sheffield in the HOF, but I don't think the writers will do it.
                      "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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                      • Ghost Of The Year
                        T Bone
                        • Mar 2014
                        • 6398

                        #1466
                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        Originally posted by Godgers12

                        Also, on another note, will... Palmiero, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Clemons... ever get in?
                        Originally posted by Sportsforever
                        Bonds, Clemens - yes

                        The rest, no...
                        If Bonds & Clemens go in then so do Palmeiro, McGwire, Sosa and also A-Rod.
                        Birds of a feather, ya know.
                        Talk about things nobody cares.

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                        • Sportsforever
                          NL MVP
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 20368

                          #1467
                          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                          Originally posted by Ghost Of The Year
                          If Bonds & Clemens go in then so do Palmeiro, McGwire, Sosa and also A-Rod.
                          Birds of a feather, ya know.
                          I don't think it will happen that way though...

                          Bonds and Clemens were HOF'rs before they ever touched a needle...if they had both retired after the 1998 season they'd have been in for 13 years now.

                          Palmeiro, Sosa, and McGwire weren't all around great players. McGwire hit homers...that's it...and since he used PED's he won't get the benefit of the doubt for exceeding 500. Sosa, while more of an all around player than McGwire, "enhanced" his HOF resume with the homers. If he doesn't hit the homers he did, he's not in, and just like McGwire it will be looked at as if the PED's helped him get his HR total. Palmeiro was a compiler (some great offensive seasons in the late 1990's not withstanding), but with the finger wag in congress and then popping positive 6 months later he literally lost everything. He's already fallen off the ballot, so he'll need the vets committee to get him on...and that won't happen for a LONG, LONG time, if it ever does.
                          "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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                          • Chip Douglass
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Dec 2005
                            • 12256

                            #1468
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            Originally posted by Ghost Of The Year
                            If Bonds & Clemens go in then so do Palmeiro, McGwire, Sosa and also A-Rod.
                            Birds of a feather, ya know.
                            Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod are inner-circle all-time greats. The other guys aren't.

                            I'm not sure Sosa deserves to be in even ignoring the PED issue, honestly.
                            I write things on the Internet.

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                            • Ghost Of The Year
                              T Bone
                              • Mar 2014
                              • 6398

                              #1469
                              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                              Originally posted by Sportsforever
                              I don't think it will happen that way though...

                              Bonds and Clemens were HOF'rs before they ever touched a needle...if they had both retired after the 1998 season they'd have been in for 13 years now.

                              Palmeiro, Sosa, and McGwire weren't all around great players. McGwire hit homers...that's it...and since he used PED's he won't get the benefit of the doubt for exceeding 500. Sosa, while more of an all around player than McGwire, "enhanced" his HOF resume with the homers. If he doesn't hit the homers he did, he's not in, and just like McGwire it will be looked at as if the PED's helped him get his HR total. Palmeiro was a compiler (some great offensive seasons in the late 1990's not withstanding), but with the finger wag in congress and then popping positive 6 months later he literally lost everything. He's already fallen off the ballot, so he'll need the vets committee to get him on...and that won't happen for a LONG, LONG time, if it ever does.
                              My only real thought process is once Bonds & Clemens go in, then the rest eventually fall in line behind. If the sole reason keeping McGwire, Sosa & Palmeiro out is because of PEDs,
                              then once you let PED0files Bonds & Clemens in, the stigma is gone.
                              Talk about things nobody cares.

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                              • Ghost Of The Year
                                T Bone
                                • Mar 2014
                                • 6398

                                #1470
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                Originally posted by Chip Douglass
                                Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod are inner-circle all-time greats. The other guys aren't.

                                I'm not sure Sosa deserves to be in even ignoring the PED issue, honestly.
                                600 homeruns isn't reason enough, if he didn't have the stench of peds?
                                Talk about things nobody cares.

                                Screw Discord. Make OS Great Again.

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