Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Did he have "one good year" surrounded by a bunch of "average" ones too?

Big tough guy still flexing his guns. You are so tough and superior, you are just a true intimidating presence. Nobody messes with you when it comes to message boards.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Another horribly paid player. Great player, but he's not worth 20 million, and especially not 5-7 years from now.

Why not? If his speed stays the same, and he keeps his average up, he can still be aligned like Ricky Henderson/Mike Cameron. (speed and hitting of Ricky and fielding of Cameron) And the market will have guys that were his age signing at 30 million a year for 10 years for a Werth.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Don't get me wrong, he can and still will be effective, but look at other players making that money.

Pujols signed a 7 year, 100 million deal a few years back. He made 18 million last season. Compared to the money some guys are getting now, Pujols should get a much bigger deal than A-Rod did.

Cabrera signed for 8yrs/153 million. He was 25

Teixeria signed 8yrs/180 million.

A-Rod got a billion dollars for a billion years.

Ryan Howard got 5yrs/125.

Adrian Gonzalez is getting a little more than Howard, isnt he?

I think there is small group of elite hitters in the game. Pujols, Cabrera, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Howard, Teixiera.

As versatile as Crawford is, he isn't that first group of "elite" players. He's a step below the guys I mentioned. I dont think he is worth anywhere near as much as them. This year was a weak free agent year, which is why Crawford got this money and why Werth got what he did.

Those guys are driving in 130 runs, hitting around .300, hitting 35-45 homers. What you'd expect from somebody making 20 million.

A few years from now, I see Crawford hitting .300, with a lot of steals. I dont see his power increasing, especially if he is hitting leadoff or 2nd for Boston. When you add it all up, I just done see 20 million dollars worth of impact from him. Effective, but not like that. Gonzalez is worth much more.

I really wanted the Tigers to sign him, and always did. He's the best all around player in the game, and can make an impact hitting at any spot in the lineup. He's unique. But when he is 36, he won't hit for much power, I think his steals will decrease a little bit. I'm sure he can maintain a .300 average, but that isn't the makeup for a 20 million dollar player.

Crawford got overpaid. Werth did. Lee will be getting paid 20 million when he is 39. the drop off after these guys is huge, which is why they are getting this money.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Crawford also has impeccable defense and swipes more than 50 bags a year. His power numbers are on the up every year. He is a true 5 tool player, some of those "power guys" are not.

He is a game changer... just as much as those guys. Every big league manager agrees that he is that.

His numbers and age, are looking almost identical to one other Roberto Clemente!

Werth, yes got over paid, I am surprised Crawford was had for only 7 years and $142... I thought it would have been much more since the Werth offer.

And in a few years time when the market explodes more, 15-17 mil will be considered a bargain for what he will bring to the table.

I think these GMs are smarter than we give them credit for.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Crawford also has impeccable defense and swipes more than 50 bags a year. His power numbers are on the up every year. He is a true 5 tool player, some of those "power guys" are not.

He is a game changer... just as much as those guys. Every big league manager agrees that he is that.

His numbers and age, are looking almost identical to one other Roberto Clemente!

Werth, yes got over paid, I am surprised Crawford was had for only 7 years and $142... I thought it would have been much more since the Werth offer.

And in a few years time when the market explodes more, 15-17 mil will be considered a bargain for what he will bring to the table.

I think these GMs are smarter than we give them credit for.

I can't agree with that after Werth got 126.

I dont if Crawford's power increases every year. Since 2005: 11, 18, 11, 8, 15, 19.

He added to his value this year a lot when he hit third, he hit for good power in those 49 games and showed he can hit in the middle of the order and drive in runs. But he hasn't shown any reason to believe he will surpass 20 HR next year, and theres no reason to believe it will increase and he gets passed the wrong side of 30.

Where do you think he will hit? The deal makes a lot more sense if he is hitting 3rd. He's going to bring his average and speed at any spot in the lineup, but if you want to get the most bang for your buck, I'd hit him third because I want to see if 2010 was a fluke, is really a great run producer or was it one year. He would have driven in 100 last year if he didn't hit 2nd for the majority of the season. If he can do that again, or hit anywhere near .360 with RISP again, the deal looks much better. If. I gotta see what he does next season.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

There is more to power than just HRs. He led the league three years in a row in triples. His slugging has been steadily on the rise.

The man is a game changer, especially when he is on base. He turns singles into doubles and sometimes triples. He will get you a lot of runs, and has a fantastic average with runners in scoring position. Him and Ells combined will be a travesty to opposing teams batteries.

And I agree about him hitting thirds, and I personally think that is where they will pencil him.

Here are two lineup scenarios I can see:

Jacoby Ellsbury cf
Dustin Pedroia 2b
Carl Crawford lf
Adrian Gonzalez 1b
Kevin Youkilis 3b
David Ortiz dh
J.D. Drew rf
Jarrod Saltalamacchia c
Marco Scutaro ss

Or:

Dustin Pedroia 2b
Carl Crawford lf
Adrian Gonzalez 1b
Kevin Youkilis 3b
David Ortiz dh
J.D. Drew rf
Jarrod Saltalamacchia c
Marco Scutaro ss
Jacoby Ellsbury cf

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Theres more to power than HR's, his slugging percentage, but thats his speed. I see it different as just raw power. Him turning singles into double is an indication of great speed more than it is great power.

He had a great average with RISP last year...that doesn't mean it carries over. It could, but only time will tell.

Jayson Werth hit .190 with RISP this year, but .270 in 2009. That's one of the most inconsistent stats in baseball, even very good players have drastic changes like that.

Crawford hit .245 with RISP in 2009 and drove in 68. He hit .100 points higher this year. That number always changes. It could easily be a fluke. I dont think he hits .364 again, he just could just hit .300 with RISP, he could hit .200. It's impossible to tell.

[bkrich83]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Are the Giants and Rangers included in those 4 teams?

Caught lightning in a bottle. Are you saying the inequity in baseball is a good thing?

Besides you're a Yankee fan, you have no idea how frustrating this is. You want the status quo, your team has a massive competitive advantage each and every single year.

[vanillagorilla8]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

This is NOTTTT possible. How did they pull this off?

[bkrich83]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

There is more to power than just HRs. He led the league three years in a row in triples. His slugging has been steadily on the rise.

The man is a game changer, especially when he is on base. He turns singles into doubles and sometimes triples. He will get you a lot of runs, and has a fantastic average with runners in scoring position. Him and Ells combined will be a travesty to opposing teams batteries.

And I agree about him hitting thirds, and I personally think that is where they will pencil him.

Here are two lineup scenarios I can see:

Jacoby Ellsbury cf
Dustin Pedroia 2b
Carl Crawford lf
Adrian Gonzalez 1b
Kevin Youkilis 3b
David Ortiz dh
J.D. Drew rf
Jarrod Saltalamacchia c
Marco Scutaro ss

Or:

Dustin Pedroia 2b
Carl Crawford lf
Adrian Gonzalez 1b
Kevin Youkilis 3b
David Ortiz dh
J.D. Drew rf
Jarrod Saltalamacchia c
Marco Scutaro ss
Jacoby Ellsbury cf

I like the second lineup better.

I love Crawford hitting in the two spot.

[Dispatch]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Don't get me wrong, he can and still will be effective, but look at other players making that money.

Pujols signed a 7 year, 100 million deal a few years back. He made 18 million last season. Compared to the money some guys are getting now, Pujols should get a much bigger deal than A-Rod did.

Cabrera signed for 8yrs/153 million. He was 25

Teixeria signed 8yrs/180 million.

A-Rod got a billion dollars for a billion years.

Ryan Howard got 5yrs/125.

Adrian Gonzalez is getting a little more than Howard, isnt he?

I think there is small group of elite hitters in the game. Pujols, Cabrera, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Howard, Teixiera.

As versatile as Crawford is, he isn't that first group of "elite" players. He's a step below the guys I mentioned. I dont think he is worth anywhere near as much as them. This year was a weak free agent year, which is why Crawford got this money and why Werth got what he did.

Those guys are driving in 130 runs, hitting around .300, hitting 35-45 homers. What you'd expect from somebody making 20 million.

A few years from now, I see Crawford hitting .300, with a lot of steals. I dont see his power increasing, especially if he is hitting leadoff or 2nd for Boston. When you add it all up, I just done see 20 million dollars worth of impact from him. Effective, but not like that. Gonzalez is worth much more.

I really wanted the Tigers to sign him, and always did. He's the best all around player in the game, and can make an impact hitting at any spot in the lineup. He's unique. But when he is 36, he won't hit for much power, I think his steals will decrease a little bit. I'm sure he can maintain a .300 average, but that isn't the makeup for a 20 million dollar player.

Crawford got overpaid. Werth did. Lee will be getting paid 20 million when he is 39. the drop off after these guys is huge, which is why they are getting this money.

You can't compare Crawfords contract with contracts like Pujols and other similar contracts. Jason Werth set the market price when he got his ridiculous contract from the Nats. Clearly Crawford is a better player then Werth so he isn't going to take less money. Then you factor in that Crawford is younger and one, if not the best left fielders in baseball and the price for him is clearly going to be higher.

Is it a lot of money? Yeah of course it is, but it's not my money and the Sox must feel that there is value in it or they wouldn't have done it.

[snepp]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

There's more to the game than just hitting home runs. It appears that you're completely neglecting everything else. Elite defense (especially from a non-first baseman), elite speed and baserunning, to go along with some power.

HR and RBI are a very poor way to evaluate overall player value.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Actually, there's a decent article on the Crawford signing on fangraphs:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...carl-crawford/

Also, for perspective on Werth (for comparison sake):

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...-the-headline/


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[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

There's more to the game than just hitting home runs. It appears that you're completely neglecting everything else. Elite defense (especially from a non-first baseman), elite speed and baserunning, to go along with some power.

HR and RBI are a very poor way to evaluate overall player value.

It's a given that Crawford can catch the ball and steal bases. We weren't debating that. We were talking about him hitting third, and driving in runs.

Boston isn't paying him to run real fast. They are paying him to be a complete ballplayer. And the one part of his game that isn't certain, is whether he is an true RBI man or if he just had that 1 nice season with RISP. Thats what we were talking about.

Common sense. Why would we sit here and argue whether he is a 20 million player because he can run fast. or catch a ball. We were talking about him producing from the 3 spot. But you knew that...

So when he mentions Crawford's solid power, I'm supposed to mention how fast he is? How good his glove is? Seriously man, you always have something to say don't you.

[CWood2]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

My thoughts, in order today ...

Wait, what ... we signed Carl Crawford??!!

Thank GOD it wasn't Jason Werth ... he might be the most over-hyped free agent in the history of the game.

Man ... my friends in the NESN sales department must be drinking already (10:01am EST). Clearly, TV ratings had SO much to do with this week.

This team has EVERYTHING. Speed. Power. Defense. OBP. Starting pitching. And with some additional moves, an improved bullpen.

Hmm ... do we have too many lefties? AGone hits lefties well, so I'm not all that concerned.

Wow ... that's a lot of money. I'm excited, don't get me wrong, but $20M for a speed guy is quite the precedent. Only Jeter and Ichiro have gotten near that dollar figure with a slugging % under .470.

When I get home from work today, there will be a thread on OS about how we just tried to buy the World Series, and inevitably, ruined baseball.

Welp, not my money, and with our rotation locked up for 4 years and AGone here, where else would we spend the money? Maybe years 6 and 7 decline, but I love how Carl plays the game.

MLB the Show screenshot???