Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

[bkrich83]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

So when he mentions Crawford's solid power, I'm supposed to mention how fast he is? How good his glove is? Seriously man, you always have something to say don't you.

Why shouldn't he? He's right more often than not. His posts are well thought out and not homer driven. Guys like Snepp posting here make OS a better place.

[Dog]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Why shouldn't he? He's right more often than not. His posts are well thought out and not homer driven. Guys like Snepp posting here make OS a better place.

Especially baseball. The man knows his baseball

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

There's more to the game than just hitting home runs. It appears that you're completely neglecting everything else. Elite defense (especially from a non-first baseman), elite speed and baserunning, to go along with some power.

HR and RBI are a very poor way to evaluate overall player value.

Total agreement, I was trying to convey that.

He is a five tool player! Those are hard to come by in the game today.

[bkrich83]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Total agreement, I was trying to convey that.

He is a five tool player! Those are hard to come by in the game today.

Absolutely.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

So when he mentions Crawford's solid power, I'm supposed to mention how fast he is? How good his glove is? Seriously man, you always have something to say don't you.

Of course you're supposed to mention that.

He's a 5 tool player. That's exactly why he's getting paid this much.

[CMH]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

There's more to the game than just hitting home runs. It appears that you're completely neglecting everything else. Elite defense (especially from a non-first baseman), elite speed and baserunning, to go along with some power.

HR and RBI are a very poor way to evaluate overall player value.

I don't find it surprising that the more successful teams in the league were the ones looking at Crawford and willing to pay him almost anything to acquire him.

Understandably, the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels have some of the hugest budgets in the game, but notice how all three pretty much ignored Jayson Werth (not to say he isn't a good ballplayer) and turned their attention solely on Carl Crawford.

A couple years ago, maybe five or so, and Crawford doesn't ever make this type of money as his total value would have been unappreciated by teams.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

I don't find it surprising that the more successful teams in the league were the ones looking at Crawford and willing to pay him almost anything to acquire him.

Understandably, the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels have some of the hugest budgets in the game, but notice how all three pretty much ignored Jayson Werth (not to say he isn't a good ballplayer) and turned their attention solely on Carl Crawford.

A couple years ago, maybe five or so, and Crawford doesn't ever make this type of money as his total value would have been unappreciated by teams.

Very true, but this is the norm in baseball. Especially since teams can "underpay" a player for a few years into career before arbitration eligibility, etc.

That is why someone like Pedroia looks to be a HUGE bargain with the contract they signed him for a couple of years ago.

Six-year, $40.5 million contract.

Signing bonus - $1.5 million

Base salaries
2009 - $1.5 million
2010 - $3.5 million
2011 - $5.5 million
2012 - $8 million
2013 - $10 million
2014 - $10 million

Club option
2015 - $11 million (or a $500,000 buyout)

Dave Cameron of FanGraphs.com just made an excellent point on Twitter.

Dustin Pedroia was four years away from free agency when he signed a new six-year, $40.5 million deal with the Red Sox in Dec. 2008. He was coming off a season that saw him hit .326/.376/.493 with a 6.6 WAR. He was 25 at the time. The Red Sox also hold an $11 million option for 2015.

Troy Tulowitzki, 26, is coming off a season that saw him hit .315/.381/.568 with a 6.4 WAR and was four years away from free agency. He signed a contract extension today that will guarantee him $157.75 million over the next 10 years.

So the Sox can keep Pedroia through 2015 for an average of $7.35 million a year while the Rockies will have Tulowitzki through 2020 for $15.78 million.

Tulowitzki is a shortstop and has more power. But that Pedroia contract looks pretty good today. Pretty, pretty good.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/11/pedroias_deal_l.html

[reduced price]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

It's just disgusting how teams like the Red Sox, and Yankees can buy a contending team year after year. Baseball needs to do something about it to level the playing field. Charging a luxury tax is a joke. I don't understand how any fans of these greedy teams can be proud and beat they're chests about how good they are. Its not earned. Its checkbook baseball and it sucks.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

It's just disgusting how teams like the Red Sox, and Yankees can buy a contending team year after year. Baseball needs to do something about it to level the playing field. Charging a luxury tax is a joke. I don't understand how any fans of these greedy teams can be proud and beat they're chests about how good they are. Its not earned. Its checkbook baseball and it sucks.

We should all hate our teams because they do what they can to win while other teams pocket all of their money? We're proud of our teams because we have owners who have shown that money is not an object to make the fans happy and create a winning atmosphere. It's not earned? Because we legally sign our players through free agency instead of using nothing but the draft and our own farm systems to come through? Give me a break.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Why shouldn't he? He's right more often than not. His posts are well thought out and not homer driven. Guys like Snepp posting here make OS a better place.

Especially baseball. The man knows his baseball

I dont think you guys understand. Me and Enigma were both well aware of Crawford's speed and defensive ability. I said Crawford was the best all around player in the game. But me and him were specifically talking about Crawfords power, and whether he is the typical number 2 hitter he was pre-2009, or whether he is the legit middle of the order run producer we saw last year. We were talking about his ability to drive in runs.

Then Snepp hops in and says 'you are just basing this off of HR and RBI, he plays great defense and steals bases". No freakin way. Everybody knows that. He didn't realize we were talking about him and his ability to drive in runs specifically.

The Red Sox didn't buy a championship. They signed one player. They traded their own kids, that they developed, to get Gonzalez. Signing one free agent isn't buying a championship.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

It's just disgusting how teams like the Red Sox, and Yankees can buy a contending team year after year. Baseball needs to do something about it to level the playing field. Charging a luxury tax is a joke. I don't understand how any fans of these greedy teams can be proud and beat they're chests about how good they are. Its not earned. Its checkbook baseball and it sucks.

Boston either traded for or Drafted: Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Ortiz, Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Gonzalez.

Buying a championship means free agency. One player (Crawford) isn't buying a champion. I suppose the Tigers try to buy a championship too because they signed Martinez and Benoit. You can't knock teams for spending money. Boston's core is almost entirely players they developed, or traded big prospects for.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Yep...

Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, etc were all home grown. And they appear to have others in Kalish, Reddick, Iglesias, Navarro, Anderson, Ranaudo, Britton etc that are up and coming.

Ortiz was signed as a Free Agent when nobody wanted him...

Beckett was traded for Hanley Ramirez (a damn stud, which everyone knew it was going to happen).

Gonzalez was traded for 3 high potential prospects, which there is a good chance 2 out of the three can be Hanley caliber if developed properly.

And Crawford was a big free agent signing for them. And one of the biggest they have made in a LONG time.

And I welcome him since he is one of my favorite players in the game. It is so exciting to me, as a Crawford fan, to have him on my favorite team, especially for 7 years. And I will be running out and getting a jersey first thing!

[snepp]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

I dont think you guys understand. Me and Enigma were both well aware of Crawford's speed and defensive ability. I said Crawford was the best all around player in the game. But me and him were specifically talking about Crawfords power, and whether he is the typical number 2 hitter he was pre-2009, or whether he is the legit middle of the order run producer we saw last year. We were talking about his ability to drive in runs.

Then Snepp hops in and says 'you are just basing this off of HR and RBI, he plays great defense and steals bases". No freakin way. Everybody knows that. He didn't realize we were talking about him and his ability to drive in runs specifically.

You were saying?

I think there is small group of elite hitters in the game. Pujols, Cabrera, Gonzalez, Rodriguez, Howard, Teixiera.

As versatile as Crawford is, he isn't that first group of "elite" players. He's a step below the guys I mentioned. I dont think he is worth anywhere near as much as them. This year was a weak free agent year, which is why Crawford got this money and why Werth got what he did.

Those guys are driving in 130 runs, hitting around .300, hitting 35-45 homers. What you'd expect from somebody making 20 million.

This was your entire argument against Crawford, based entirely around HR and RBI while completely ignoring everything else.

Oh, and Howard isn't really an "elite" hitter. Over the last 3 years he's around the 10th best offensive player.....at his own position. (this poor horse has been beaten too many times in this forum though, no need to rehash it again)

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

You were saying?





This was your entire argument against Crawford, based entirely around HR and RBI while completely ignoring everything else.

Look around the league: how many guys make 20 million based off of their great speed and defense? The group of 20 million dollar players are franchise players.

He isn't an elite player. Those numbers I posted, are numbers that anchor your franchise. You can put Cabrera or Pujols into the heart of your lineup and they will lead your franchise for the next decade. Crawford isn't that guy. He isn't going to be the best player on the team. He isn't going to be the face of the franchise that leads you to championships. He's going to help, but he's not going to carry like Pujols would. He's a notch below the elite players.

Say all you want about how his overall skill set should be worth 20 million, but there was plenty of GM's around the league who didn't bother getting him once they heard the price. If he was a free agent next season, he wouldn't get money like this.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Red Sox agree to terms with Carl Crawford

Crawford is an ELITE player. He is five tool.