Where have I touted how well they've done? They were put in a no win situation. There's not a GM in baseball who could have turned them around while dropping the budget more than $15m. As an M's fan, they've done what I wanted them to do...develop a farm system Gillick and Bavasi destroyed. We'll see what comes within the next 2-4 years.
The Hot Stove League Thread
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
Where have I touted how well they've done? They were put in a no win situation. There's not a GM in baseball who could have turned them around while dropping the budget more than $15m. As an M's fan, they've done what I wanted them to do...develop a farm system Gillick and Bavasi destroyed. We'll see what comes within the next 2-4 years.
You can talk about farm system ratings and building through youth.. Lots of teams have said that.. Few actually succeed at it.Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association -
Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
Where have I touted how well they've done? They were put in a no win situation. There's not a GM in baseball who could have turned them around while dropping the budget more than $15m. As an M's fan, they've done what I wanted them to do...develop a farm system Gillick and Bavasi destroyed. We'll see what comes within the next 2-4 years.
I couldn't disagree more. No other sport has as many low budget teams make the playoffs than baseball. Obviously they don't get there by throwing millions, so how do they do it other than building through the minors?
Great prospects are just that. Until those systems start producing productive player, talking up the farm clubs is just that, talk.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
The spread of teams that make the playoffs is all over the board the last 10 years. 3 of the last 5 World Series have been represented by a team with a bottom 6 payroll. Only six (of 12) World Series champions since 2000 have had a top 10 payroll. You obviously disagree, but many teams have had proven success building through the minors, then supplementing that talent with some medium tier free agents to keep their payroll down.
Great prospects are just that. Until those systems start producing productive player, talking up the farm clubs is just that, talk.Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists AssociationComment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
I wasn't sugarcoating, or attempting to sugarcoat anything.
I am usually the first person in a Mariners' discussion that will talk about all of the losses - the six losing seasons in eight years and no playoff appearances; I was merely saying that their farm system has improved. I am not sure how that can be denied. Will it translate to the Major League ball club? I hope so.
There's no need to go and twist my words. I never said they were getting it done or implying that the M's are anywhere near contention.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
When they start winning then tout how well they've done. They haven't done anything yet, and during their tenure they've been arguably the worst team in the league.
You can talk about farm system ratings and building through youth.. Lots of teams have said that.. Few actually succeed at it.
Seems like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing with a divisional rival's fans. What you're doing is arguing against points that were never made.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
my point was a lot of teams claim to be building through the farm system, and they fail over and over again. I posted the mariners track record shows they've not been managed well. Until they start winning you really can't disprove that.
I live in the town of a team who continues to preach building from within but they can't develop a player to save their lives. The mariners haven't shown they can either.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
Since when are the mariners a rival?my point was a lot of teams claim to be building through the farm system, and they fail over and over again. I posted the mariners track record shows they've not been managed well. Until they start winning you really can't disprove that.
I live in the town of a team who continues to preach building from within but they can't develop a player to save their lives. The mariners haven't shown they can either.
I am not trying to disprove anything because I haven't made any real assertions other than the fact that the team is going in a different direction than they have over the past 10 years. The focus is the farm system and getting talented kids in the organization. Their system used to be one of the worst in baseball and the importance was never placed in keeping a well stocked system with legit prospects. None of them are proven at the MLB level, but that should really go without saying. The focus is now shifting to what many M's fans have been wanting over the past few years - be smart in FA, draft well, make good International signings and develop the young talent. It might work, it might not. It's true that a lot of teams have tried and failed, but look at the Rays and other smaller market teams - maybe it is the exception rather than the rule, but when you've been as pitiful as the M's have been over the past eight years, it's a good direction to go in.
I said the system has improved greatly, while obviously realizing that the proof has yet to arrive. Coug00 said essentially the same thing. We can't boast yet but looking at it and being honest, the farm system is better than it was. I hope it translates to wins at the MLB level. Time will tell.
Touche on the rival comment... Sad but true, the M's haven't been much competition in the AL West for a long time now. It's definitely a two-team race with the Rangers and the Halos for the foreseeable future.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
It's really hard to develop players when you throw away first round picks in the form of Allan Dykstra and Nick Schmidt, both of whom have had red flags (and then when they get to the major league level, at the first sign of failure they're benched indefinitely).Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
There's not much to develop when you don't draft well (Josh Fields in the first round among countless others - thanks, Bavasi) and have a bottom-of-the-barrel farm system
I know how it feels to have a bunch of terrible 1st round picks and a bunch of hyped prospects not pan out. I remember when Hayden Penn, Radhames Liz, Daniel Cabrera, Erik Bedard, and Adam Loewen were supposed to anchor the rotation for years to come (only Bedard panned out)...now it's Matusz/Arrieta/Tillman/Bergesen/Britton, and all of them other than Britton have been mediocre at best. Off the top of my head the only above average players that the Orioles have developed over the last 8-10 years are Markakis, Bedard, and Wieters.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
Don't forget Jeff Clement.
I know how it feels to have a bunch of terrible 1st round picks and a bunch of hyped prospects not pan out. I remember when Hayden Penn, Radhames Liz, Daniel Cabrera, Erik Bedard, and Adam Loewen were supposed to anchor the rotation for years to come (only Bedard panned out)...now it's Matusz/Arrieta/Tillman/Bergesen/Britton, and all of them other than Britton have been mediocre at best. Off the top of my head the only above average players that the Orioles have developed over the last 8-10 years are Markakis, Bedard, and Wieters.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
That's good to know, and the real Fausto Carmona is using someone elses name.
I think it's ridiculous but what can MLB do? These guys slip through with this kind of stuff all the time. Back in 2007 or 2008, the Padres signed a shortstop going by the name Alvaro Aristy who turned out to be Jorge Guzman (and a couple of years older), and the ironic thing was the real Alvaro Aristy was caught earlier using someone elses name.
Makes me think Rymer Liriano, Yoan Alcantara, Adys Portillo, Jonathan Galvez, and Edinson Rincon are all frauds. It's only a matter of time.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
That's good to know, and the real Fausto Carmona is using someone elses name.
I think it's ridiculous but what can MLB do? These guys slip through with this kind of stuff all the time. Back in 2007 or 2008, the Padres signed a shortstop going by the name Alvaro Aristy who turned out to be Jorge Guzman (and a couple of years older), and the ironic thing was the real Alvaro Aristy was caught earlier using someone elses name.
Makes me think Rymer Liriano, Yoan Alcantara, Adys Portillo, Jonathan Galvez, and Edinson Rincon are all frauds. It's only a matter of time.
Which...I hope they do but probably won't do it.Too Old To Game Club
Urban Meyer is lol.Comment
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Re: The Hot Stove League Thread
I always knew there was something funny about that sweaty mother ****er.Browns
Cavaliers
Indians
BuckeyesOriginally posted by sneppKen Dilger, weapon.
Someone needs to set this thread on fire.Comment
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