The Hot Stove League Thread

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  • rdnk
    All Star
    • Feb 2009
    • 5730

    #1366
    Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

    I guess years, money and a competitive team overcome father son difficulties.

    Anyways, this seems like a Mike Ilitch move more than a Dave Dombrowski move. Sadly, odds are Ilitch won't be alive for the end of Fielder's deal, so it's all upside for him.

    Maybe now with Fielder Oswalt will want to come to the Tigers?
    Ottawa Senator's Dynasty (NHL 09)
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    Comment

    • Knight165
      *ll St*r
      • Feb 2003
      • 24964

      #1367
      Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

      What I don't understand is....after all this time....with what seems like mediocre interest to drive it....9 years at nearly 24 mil per?
      Huh?

      M.K.
      Knight165
      All gave some. Some gave all. 343

      Comment

      • Psyblast
        2023 National Champions
        • Jun 2003
        • 42584

        #1368
        Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

        Over/Under on human interest stories in 2012 involving Prince coming to play for Detroit like his dad: 12.5.

        Comment

        • Chaos81
          Hall Of Fame
          • Mar 2004
          • 17150

          #1369
          Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

          Originally posted by Psyblast
          Over/Under on human interest stories in 2012 involving Prince coming to play for Detroit like his dad: 12.5.
          Over. </url>

          Comment

          • CMH
            Making you famous
            • Oct 2002
            • 26203

            #1370
            Originally posted by Psyblast
            Over/Under on human interest stories in 2012 involving Prince coming to play for Detroit like his dad: 12.5.
            Beat. To. Death.

            His first game. His first home run. His first 50 home run season. Those three moments at least will generate comparisons with video.

            Wait till the Tigers are on ESPN. They are gonna break down both of their swings. There's gonna be a story in the pre game about their rift and closure.

            It's gonna be sickening.


            Sent from my mobile device.
            "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

            "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

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            • Dog
              aka jnes12/JNes__
              • Aug 2008
              • 11846

              #1371
              Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

              Theory: Prince Fielder actually works for ESPN and is doing this to generate good stories
              Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
              PSN: JNes__

              Comment

              • Bellsprout
                Hard Times.
                • Oct 2009
                • 25652

                #1372
                Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                Originally posted by CMH
                His first 50 home run season.
                Will he hit 50 playing 81 games in Comerica's cavernous outfield every year?

                Miller Park's a launching pad at times, and he only hit 50 once when he was with us.
                Member: OS Uni Snob Association | Twitter: @MyNameIsJesseG | #WT4M | #WatchTheWorldBurn
                Originally posted by l3ulvl
                A lot of you guys seem pretty cool, but you have wieners.

                Comment

                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007

                  #1373
                  Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                  Originally posted by snepp
                  Detroit should offer Fielder $30 million for one year.

                  WAY too many years, but consider my own horn tooted.

                  Money buys an awful lot of happiness, no amount of family history is going to get in the way of that payday.


                  Originally posted by CMH
                  I just don't understand why they had to go 9 years. Why do teams continuously outbid themselves?
                  Good question, why give Boras exactly what he's been looking for now when it's become obvious that no one else was going to?
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                  Comment

                  • CabreraMVP
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 1437

                    #1374
                    Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                    Yes they will be bad defensively. But having your 3-4 hitters both be 1.000 OPS guys in their late 20s? I think that makes up for it. And while defense is important, it doesn't hold a team back from being a world series winner. If you can hit and pitch, you will be a contender no matter how bad your defense is. The Tigers can hit and they can pitch, if they don't reach their expectations it won't be because of their defense. Plenty of bad defensive teams have won the WS.

                    Cabrera is still a very athletic/agile guy, he can probably handle the position better than Betemit. I think he might actually improve a little bit at third base. Since he was last there, he's become a much harder worker and made himself into a solid first basemen. Either way, him and Prince are going to create a lot more runs that they will give up.

                    I have no doubt Cabrera/Verlander get their new deals anyway, zero doubt at all. So when Miguel and Prince are old, they will be able to switch back and forth from 1st base and DH so that will work out great Imo. Keep them fresh in their 30's with both bats in the lineup. I'm not that worried about their weight. With both of these guys, people questioned their weight. Cabrera has gotten bigger ever year since 2003 but he's also gotten better every year. Fielder has been obese since he was in diapers and it's never hampered his ability to play. They both have been in the lineup every single day for their whole careers. Cabrera averages 159 games a year and Fielder has missed 14 games in his career.

                    It's risky...it's way too long of a deal...but the goal is World Series. If they win one, or two, or three, everybody will not be upset if Fielder can't move when he is 35. Detroit wants a World Series Ring. Illitch is 83 and a WS ring has been the only thing on his mind since he was a kid growing up in Detroit. He wants to win and giving 200 million to a first basemen when you already have the best first basemen in the AL shows this.

                    This past year was the best Tigers team ever under illitch, he bought them in '93. They have a young team, so this is their time to finallly do it. He saw that Fielder put them over the top and he jumped at it. It's risky, it will suck in 7 years, but whatever it takes to win.

                    One thing that makes this easier to handle though is that Prince is 27. He's got 5-6 prime years ahead of him. Unlike Pujols who's best years were behind him. It could be much worse.

                    But this won't be a franchise crippling move, Illitch is a rich man. Owns the Red Wings, Little Ceasers, he owns everything in Detroit. He's got way more money than he ever spent on the Tigers. They can cover this deal and paying Verlander/Cabrera in 3 years too. They wouldn't have done it if they couldn't. You have to remember, just 3 years ago they owned 70 million to guys like Sheffield, Guillen, Willis, Robertson, Bonderman and all those guys contributed nothing (they all sucked except for guillen, injured) but they managed to stay competitive and bring in a lot of young talent WHILE these were hammered with 70 million dollars worth of dead weight.

                    They defenitely need to get to work on building up this system though, our whole payroll will be the Big 3 stars, and Avila, Jackson, Boesch, Porcello, Scherzer will get new contracts. So they need to get some young talent in the system so in 5 years, they have some cheap, cost effective players ready to fill a hole or two. I bet eventually Porcello or Scherzer will be traded for some decent prospects. With Avila hitting behind Prince and Cabrera, he could have another monster year and will be line for a nice contract as well if he continues to be a .900 OPS catcher. It will be tough.
                    Last edited by CabreraMVP; 01-24-2012, 09:58 PM.
                    JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

                    Comment

                    • Knight165
                      *ll St*r
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 24964

                      #1375
                      Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                      Originally posted by CabreraMVP
                      Yes they will be bad defensively. But having your 3-4 hitters both be 1.000 OPS guys in their late 20s? I think that makes up for it. And while defense is important, it doesn't hold a team back from being a world series winner. If you can hit and pitch, you will be a contender no matter how bad your defense is. The Tigers can hit and they can pitch, if they don't reach their expectations it won't be because of their defense. Plenty of bad defensive teams have won the WS.

                      Cabrera is still a very athletic/agile guy, he can probably handle the position better than Betemit. I think he might actually improve a little bit at third base. Since he was last there, he's become a much harder worker and made himself into a solid first basemen. Either way, him and Prince are going to create a lot more runs that they will give up.

                      I have no doubt Cabrera/Verlander get their new deals anyway, zero doubt at all. So when Miguel and Prince are old, they will be able to switch back and forth from 1st base and DH so that will work out great Imo. Keep them fresh in their 30's with both bats in the lineup. I'm not that worried about their weight. With both of these guys, people questioned their weight. Cabrera has gotten bigger ever year since 2003 but he's also gotten better every year. Fielder has been obese since he was in diapers and it's never hampered his ability to play. They both have been in the lineup every single day for their whole careers. Cabrera averages 159 games a year and Fielder has missed 14 games in his career.

                      It's risky...it's way too long of a deal...but the goal is World Series. If they win one, or two, or three, everybody will not be upset if Fielder can't move when he is 35. Detroit wants a World Series Ring. Illitch is 83 and a WS ring has been the only thing on his mind since he was a kid growing up in Detroit. He wants to win and giving 200 million to a first basemen when you already have the best first basemen in the AL shows this.

                      This past year was the best Tigers team ever under illitch, he bought them in '93. They have a young team, so this is their time to finallly do it. He saw that Fielder put them over the top and he jumped at it.

                      But this won't be a franchise crippling move, Illitch is a rich man. Owns the Red Wings, Little Ceasers, he owns everything in Detroit. He's got way more money than he ever spent on the Tigers. They can cover this deal and paying Verlander/Cabrera in 3 years too. They wouldn't have done it if they couldn't. You have to remember, just 3 years ago they owned 70 million to guys like Sheffield, Guillen, Willis, Robertson, Bonderman and all those guys contributed nothing (they all sucked except for guillen, injured) but they managed to stay competitive and bring in a lot of young talent WHILE these were hammered with 70 million dollars worth of dead weight.
                      I believe only two teams in history were worst in defense and won the World Series. The last in 1965.

                      M.K.
                      Knight165
                      All gave some. Some gave all. 343

                      Comment

                      • CabreraMVP
                        MVP
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 1437

                        #1376
                        Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                        Originally posted by Jgainsey
                        The females in Michigan go crazy for this guy...?




                        That makes about as much sense as signing one of the fattest position players in recent memory to a 9-year contract.
                        You have no idea man. Every single female. Even My mom, who is in her 50's and knows very little about baseball, loves him. I hate it. People see him as the cute little hard worker/family man. He puts on a nice unselfish act, but he has an ego that he's managed to mask pretty well to the average fan.

                        Any girl I have ever talked to baseball about. I say "Oh so you like the Tigers?" Their response is always "Yes, especially Inge! He's my Tiger!"

                        Just watch though...Cabrera who is a superstar has glady accepted a change to third base already. I GUARANTEE Inge is going to drop some very unsettling quotes to the media these next few months. When he hit .211 in 07, and we got Cabrera, he was mad and felt like he was entitled to the position. He's hilarious. He will do the same thing this time.

                        With Kelly/Santiago/Dirks set as our bench players, Inge might be released. If he stays as the 4th man, we would have 3 backup infielders which is too many. But who am I kidding, they will probably resign him.
                        JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

                        Comment

                        • CabreraMVP
                          MVP
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 1437

                          #1377
                          Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                          Originally posted by Knight165
                          I believe only two teams in history were worst in defense and won the World Series. The last in 1965.

                          M.K.
                          Knight165

                          Being the worst isn't the same as being bad. You can be 19th overall and still be bad. You don't have to be elite defensively to win a world series. It helps, but you don't ever see a team that can pitch and hit lose because they couldn't play defesnse well enough over the course of a full season.

                          I don't think they will be worst. Jackson is as good as anybody in CF. I'm hoping they slide Delmon Young to DH and pick up a LF with a good glove. With Delmon, they could be the worst. But with a better defender out there (even Andy Dirks) they will be a solid group in the outfield. Boesch isn't great but he's young and can cover some ground in Left or Right.

                          At the corners, yea they are bad. But the offense will override that, it won't cost them runs. Peralta only made 6 errors last year and posted a DWAR of 1.0 for whatever that's worth. He makes the play on everything he can get to. Good hands, accurate arm. Santiago at 2B has made 1 error over the past few seasons. He's good.

                          I don't think they will be the worst. Bottom half? Yes. But for all their bad defenders, they have some pretty good ones in Jackson, Avila, Santiago and Peralta. They are very strong through the middle of the diamond. It's just the corners. And if they can DH Delmon, they will just have 2 really bad defenders out of 9 guys. That's OK.

                          I would like to try to get Parra from Arizona. That guy is an amazing defensive player. Seems out of place with Kubel there.

                          Bottom line...if they can DH Young they won't be the worst.
                          Last edited by CabreraMVP; 01-24-2012, 10:22 PM.
                          JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

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                          • Travis40
                            MVP
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 1651

                            #1378
                            Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                            Koji Uehara used his no trade clause to block a trade to Toronto</PRE></P>

                            Comment

                            • CabreraMVP
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 1437

                              #1379
                              Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                              Apparently Cespdes got his VISA too. Waiting on MLB to declare him Free Agency.

                              There's a 99.9% chance he winds up in Miami I think. They said they will outbid anybody and I believe them. How does their OF look with him in Center? Does Bonifacio play 2nd base? Infante becomes utility man?
                              JayElectronicaBluElzhi2PacTheNotoriousB.I.G.ReksSc arfaceFashawnJeruThaDamaja

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                              • Sportsforever
                                NL MVP
                                • Mar 2005
                                • 20368

                                #1380
                                Re: The Hot Stove League Thread

                                Originally posted by Knight165
                                I believe only two teams in history were worst in defense and won the World Series. The last in 1965.

                                M.K.
                                Knight165
                                Knight,
                                What metric are you using for "worst" defense? No way the 1965 Dodgers had the worst defense that year. That team won with pitching and defense.
                                "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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