2011 Awards Thread

[Beantown]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

I don't get the "fielders can't win Cy Young Award so pitchers shouldn't win MVP." Sure position players cannot win the Cy Young award, but they also have their own "offensive superiority award" in the Hank Aaron Award which pitchers cannot win either. Cy Young Award for pitchers, Hank Aaron Award for hitters, MVP is free-for-fall because it's the Most Valuable Player, not Hitter. If a pitcher was considered more valuable than any hitter, then it should be fine especially since it rarely happens in the first place.

People care about the Hank Aaron Award? I definitely have never heard a single person every say "So and so has won two Hank Aaron Awards in his career" and would put it no-where close to the Cy Young comparison, but that's just me.

I legitimately could not tell you a single HA award winner, sans probably Barry Bonds in his record season.


I'm not a fan of pitchers winning the MVP the same way I'm not a fan of defensive players winning the MVP in the NFL. Oh well, though, had the Red Sox not collapsed I'm comfortable saying Ellsbury probably would've won, so that's a moral victory.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Last time I checked, MVP stood for Most Valuable Player, not "best player in the League except for Pitchers because they have their 'own award.'" If I had a vote, mine would go to Verlander because without him, that team doesn't win the division much less go to the ALCS. He was extremely valuable to the Tigers this year, and very deserving of the award.

If you want to exclude players, create a Most Valuable Fielder award. Until then, include every deserving player.

[Dog]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

I'm not against pitchers for MVP, but I think you have to be better than Verlander was to win it, as crazy as that may be

[TCM]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

In my opinion, I'd much rather have seen a guy like Valverde win over Verlander (Still think Ellsbury should've won)

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

In my opinion, I'd much rather have seen a guy like Valverde win over Verlander (Still think Ellsbury should've won)

In what possible way is Valverde a more valuable player than Verlander?

[TCM]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

In what possible way is Valverde a more valuable player than Verlander?

Well I'm not really for pitchers winning MVP but if I had to pick one I'd pick the guy that went 49 for 49 in saves, it's great knowing when your team has the lead the games only 8 innings long (just my opinion).

[snepp]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

If I had a vote, mine would go to Verlander because without him, that team doesn't win the division much less go to the ALCS.

They won the division by 15 games, one player isn't going to account for that kind of spread.

[Marino]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Come on Kemp, although I am perfectly fine if the HeBrewer wins the MVP though.

[daflyboys]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

If I had a vote, mine would go to Verlander because without him, that team doesn't win the division much less go to the ALCS. He was extremely valuable to the Tigers this year, and very deserving of the award.

If you want to exclude players, create a Most Valuable Fielder award. Until then, include every deserving player.

Kumbaya. Another pitcher winning half of Verlander's games and the Tigers still win the division and they remain 3rd overall in the AL.

In what possible way is Valverde a more valuable player than Verlander?

So you make that statement about Verlander and then this about Valverde. Telling.

[SPTO]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

In what possible way is Valverde a more valuable player than Verlander?

Not gonna say Valverde is a better option but I was listening to an interview with Rob Neyer and he mentioned the fact that Verlander was out of the game late in 10-12 games this season. Valverde because of his great season converted all those. If Valverde had a "normal" year Verlander would only end up with 18-20 wins.

and....I think I lost my point. I still think pitcher can win the MVP but in a lot of ways Verlander's year wasn't as crazy good as some others in the past. Hell, he had the exact same .ERA as Jared Weaver.

(Yes I know I didn't use a SABR stat but you get my drift here)

[jth1331]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Honestly, I'm surprised Verlander won the MVP. He didn't have an incredibly crazy year stat wise, and the Tigers easily won the division.
What helped was Bautista's second half slump and Boston pulling an **** fail to close the year.

[Marino]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Congrats to the HeBrewer for winning MVP.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Congrats to the HeBrewer for winning MVP.

Ah, I really wanted Kemp to win it. I can't complain about Braun though as he is very deserving...at least Kemp was a close 2nd.

[Bellsprout]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

*dances*

First NL MVP in franchise history. This makes me happy.

Also, Marino, I love the HeBrewer nickname.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Kumbaya. Another pitcher winning half of Verlander's games and the Tigers still win the division and they remain 3rd overall in the AL.

That's not true. Verlander was 16-3 after a loss. He was ending losing streaks. A normal pitcher winnging half of those, say 8, still would have prolonged 8 losing streaks.

I mean before they got Fister, the Tigers were neck and neck with Cleveland. Verlander was the only starting pitcher with an ERA under 4.50 in the rotation.

That 15 game lead was created when Fister was winning everytime he pitched, Scherzer got hot, and the Indians were deflated. The Tigers won 13 straight in the final two weeks, and that was after the race was decided.

Detroit and Cleveland were right next to each other in the standings up until Late August. And over those months in the summer, Verlander was the only reason they were in contention. If an average starting pitcher won half the starts, the Tigers would have been at least 6 games back of Cleveland (in June, July) but instead they were up by a game or two for the majority of the summer.

That 15 game lead is deceiving because it was all gained in the final two weeks of the season, when the race was all but over and Detroit won 13 straight.

Verlander pitching great put them in a position to end the season like that. He kept them near the top of the standings by himself until Fister came over.

Basically no they wouldn't have won the division by 7 games, or won the division at all, if Brad Penny was cloned (heaven forbid) and pitching in Verlander's spot.

Verlander just didn't win because of his stats, a lot of writers pointed out how crucial he was to ending losing streaks, starting winning streaks, and how bad the rest of the rotation was. Those 3 things added up proved how valuable he was (just beyond the wins, era, strikeouts, etc), the situational stuff made a big impact on the voters.