2011 Awards Thread

[Marino]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

*dances*

First NL MVP in franchise history. This makes me happy.

Also, Marino, I love the HeBrewer nickname.

Boots to ***es.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

The "Save" stat is the most overrated stat in baseball next to batting average. I've seen players in games where they won 30-3 get a save. They aren't important. Verlander's contribution in addition to the 18-3 record that he had after his team lost the previous game (not my favorite stat, but one that a lot of commentators are using) include a 8.9 K/9, 2 BB/9 and a 1.11 WHIP. In addition to that, he also earned 24 wins with a defense that belongs somewhere between the old folks home and a grave (and while some might criticize me for using wins, I'm saying he won in spite of his team's defense).

Verlander came through with a team that could only bat for him and mowed down his opponents. Out of all the players in the American League, Verlander was the most valuable to his team through his play on the field.

[TCM]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

The "Save" stat is the most overrated stat in baseball next to batting average. I've seen players in games where they won 30-3 get a save. They aren't important. Verlander's contribution in addition to the 18-3 record that he had after his team lost the previous game (not my favorite stat, but one that a lot of commentators are using) include a 8.9 K/9, 2 BB/9 and a 1.11 WHIP. In addition to that, he also earned 24 wins with a defense that belongs somewhere between the old folks home and a grave (and while some might criticize me for using wins, I'm saying he won in spite of his team's defense).

Verlander came through with a team that could only bat for him and mowed down his opponents. Out of all the players in the American League, Verlander was the most valuable to his team through his play on the field.

How can you say saves aren't important? If you had a Jose Valverde at the back end of your bullpen you'd be World Champs right now.

If you're going to bring wins into this, who do you think secured all of those wins for him? He didn't throw a complete game every time he pitched so someone had to be there to shut the door, and what would be better than a guy who didn't blow a save all year?

[Perfect Zero]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

How can you say saves aren't important? If you had a Jose Valverde at the back end of your bullpen you'd be World Champs right now.

If you're going to bring wins into this, who do you think secured all of those wins for him? He didn't throw a complete game every time he pitched so someone had to be there to shut the door, and what would be better than a guy who didn't blow a save all year?

If we had a guy with saves? Neftali Feliz has the all time rookie saves record with forty. Feliz had six saves in the postseason along with all of the wins in the ALDS. I'd say Feliz did a great job this season considering it's his sophomore season.

The problem with closers today (and I mean today, not when closers worked for three innings to save the bullpen) is that they are held to their little niche position. How valuable is a position where the player can only work an inning to two max? Just because you can pitch to three or four batters doesn't make you the Most Valuable Player.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

The "Save" stat is the most overrated stat in baseball next to batting average. I've seen players in games where they won 30-3 get a save. They aren't important. Verlander's contribution in addition to the 18-3 record that he had after his team lost the previous game (not my favorite stat, but one that a lot of commentators are using) include a 8.9 K/9, 2 BB/9 and a 1.11 WHIP. In addition to that, he also earned 24 wins with a defense that belongs somewhere between the old folks home and a grave (and while some might criticize me for using wins, I'm saying he won in spite of his team's defense).

Verlander came through with a team that could only bat for him and mowed down his opponents. Out of all the players in the American League, Verlander was the most valuable to his team through his play on the field.

That's something that never gets mentioned, the defense. Hellen Keller can make better reads on balls than Raburn and Young. Those two might be the worst in the game. Magglio out there, the Tigers have an awful defense aside from Jackson, Cabrera, Peralta, and Avila. He (like every other detroit pitcher) would always have to pitch out jams created by bad defense, but very rarely do they get bailed out on a nice defensive play.

The bottom line with Verlander to me is how big he came up in the most important games throughout the season. The game agaisnt Anaheim where Weaver was throwing at people, and Verlander had the no hitter, that was a huge game and Verlander had no hit stuff for 8 innings. That win totally changed the outlook on their season and got them playing their best the rest of the way. The Tigers would have been swept in 4 games by Boston early on, but Verlander took the ball in game 4 agaisnt Beckett, and pitched an amazing game so Detroit could salvage one out of 4. I know that's just one win, but in the context of preventing a sweep, stopping the long losing streak, he came out with his best stuff. He always came up big, and when he squared off with the other teams ace, he'd come through.

I've never seen one pitcher be so valuable to a team before. But I hope this never happens again, because the only reason he had the change to play such a big role is because of how crappy everybody else was in their rotation.

How can you say saves aren't important? If you had a Jose Valverde at the back end of your bullpen you'd be World Champs right now.

If you're going to bring wins into this, who do you think secured all of those wins for him? He didn't throw a complete game every time he pitched so someone had to be there to shut the door, and what would be better than a guy who didn't blow a save all year?

I do believe saves and closers are overrated. Not too diminish what Valverde did, and how much of a luxury a shutdown closer is, but his name anywhere near MVP consideration, even Cy Young in my opinion, is crazy.

Valverde was extremely lucky not to blow a save. He had one of his worst seasons in terms of WHIP. He let a ton of guys get on base, he had very few easy saves. Some that come to mind to preserve his perfect record was when Jackson made an unbelievable throw from CF to nail the tying run at the plate. It was a game ending double play. He had many times where he would let a couple guys on, and really just look bad. I'll give him credit for getting out of those situations alive, but he had a lot of luck on his side. You have to be extremely lucky to not blow a save, especially in 49 chances.

And if you look at 1 inning guys in general, they can be overrated. Tampa Bay lost the best set up man in baseball last year (Benoit) and one of the top closers (Soriano.) How can they replace them without signing big names? They signed Joel Peralta for 900k and he was amazing for them. Look at Arizona. They had a league worst bullpen, totally revamped without spending on any big name relievers, and had a great pen.

There are a lot of guys out there who could be great closers but they are in middle relief and not given the chance. That's why I think it's insane to pay somebody like Papelbon 15 per. Valverde made 7 million last year, only pitched 72 innings, but he is a bargain because other elite closers are making two times more.

[WazzuRC]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

How can you say saves aren't important? If you had a Jose Valverde at the back end of your bullpen you'd be World Champs right now.

And the Cardinals won the WS playing musical chairs all year long with their closer. Saves are incredibly overrated.

[TCM]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

And the Cardinals won the WS playing musical chairs all year long with their closer. Saves are incredibly overrated.

And if they had the closer situation under control they probably would have clinched their division.

[Dog]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Closer is the most overrated position in baseball. There should be no such thing as "closer"--just go with the best pitcher in the best situation, don't lock yourself into one guy just because he's the "closer"

[rdnk]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Closer is the most overrated position in baseball. There should be no such thing as "closer"--just go with the best pitcher in the best situation, don't lock yourself into one guy just because he's the "closer"

I disagree. I think that the manager should define some of the roles of certain bullpen members. That way, they know their role. But I agree that a team (like the Phillies) shouldn't spend an egregious amount of money on a closer unless his name is Mariano Rivera.

Jose Valverde lived up to the normal Detroit closer billing. Walks guys, gives up hits but gets the ugly save. As Detroit fans saw, if he wasn't in the "closer" role, he was useless (mostly). As I said, I think you give everyone in the bullpen a role and have them do their job.

[Travis40]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

And if they had the closer situation under control they probably would have clinched their division.

I don't think having a stable closer would've gotten them much closer to winning their division. They finished 6 games behind the Brewers.

[WazzuRC]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

And if they had the closer situation under control they probably would have clinched their division.

No.

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[TeixeiraFanatic]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Well considering Ryan Franklin had four blown saves in April, I would say it would have made a difference. If we would have converted half of our blown saves, I'm sure we could have beat out the Brewers for the Central title.

[TCM]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

No.

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Our team had 26 blown saves, you're saying if our closer situation was under control we couldn't convert 7 of those and win the pennant?

[DrJones]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Our team had 26 blown saves, you're saying if our closer situation was under control we couldn't convert 7 of those and win the pennant?

Team blown saves are a junk stat.

Atlanta had 25 blown saves, Philly had 8. The Braves would've won the NL East if that Kimbrel guy didn't suck so much, am I right?

[12]

Re: 2011 Awards Thread

Verlander deserved it.

If there was a clear cut choice in the AL who deserved it more than him, fine... but there's not.

He was the Most Valuable Player in the AL... even if it was only every fifth day. He was unhittable and he ended losing streaks. When I think of the best player in the AL last season, honestly, Verlander is the FIRST guy that comes to mind.