MVP/CY/ROY Talk

[DrJones]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I don't disagree with anything here and I guess maybe I misunderstood your posts as "He shouldn't win" against "He won't win."


I view it as basically a head to head with two managers who had similar expectations going into the season.

Even as an A's fan, I'm fully behind Showalter winning because he has done a phenomenal job so I won't argue. I just misunderstood your point of view.

Yeah, most of my posts in this kind of thread are of the "what I think will happen" variety. As far as who should win, I don't have the foggiest. I think it's much more difficult for fans to evaluate managers as opposed to players.

[jth1331]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

NY CYA should be Kimbrel. He is having the best season of any reliever, ever. Look at the numbers in this article. With there not being clear cut leader, Kimbrel should win it.


http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/84...ational-league

No, Kimbrel isn't going to win it. Chapman has just as good a case to win it as Kimbrel if you use that logic to be honest.
The NL CY will be either Gonzalez, Dickey or Cueto.

I'm almost willing to bet the AL MVP will be Cabrera due to the triple crown talk, and Trout's little slump.

[WhosJab]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Trout has had an amazing rookie season , but Cabrera is the clear winner . He's on pace for the triple crown and putting together one of the best seasons in history . Yes defense and speed are really important and valuable but lets be real this is baseball offense overrules all . This isn't basketball or football where defense alone can win games yes good defense will save runs that will win games from time to time , but overall Cabrera should win.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Trout has had an amazing rookie season , but Cabrera is the clear winner . He's on pace for the triple crown and putting together one of the best seasons in history . Yes defense and speed are really important and valuable but lets be real this is baseball offense overrules all . This isn't basketball or football where defense alone can win games yes good defense will save runs that will win games from time to time , but overall Cabrera should win.

Based on the stat that combines everything that a baseball player does to contribute to a team winning, this season Trout has contributed 4 more wins to his team than Cabrera. 4 wins is a whole hell of a lot when you're talking about one player's impact.

Put it this way - we haven't seen a WAR as high as Trout's since Bonds.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Trout has had an amazing rookie season , but Cabrera is the clear winner . He's on pace for the triple crown and putting together one of the best seasons in history.

Heh, I'll ignore the hyperbole of the last sentence and merely point out that this is arguably Cabrera's third best hitting season in Miguel Cabrera's baseball history.

Yes defense and speed are really important and valuable but lets be real this is baseball offense overrules all.

And baserunning is a fairly important component of offense. There's a reason why Trout has scored 18 more runs than Cabrera despite playing in 22 fewer games.

I agree that, with few exceptions, players derive most of their value from hitting, but it's mostly a wash there, both in the rate stats (167 OPS+ for both Trout and Cabrera) and the relevant counting stats that account for Cabrera's 22 extra games played (53.8 hitting runs for Cabrera to Trout's 52.4). If you adjust for baserunning, Trout has been a bit better offensively (172 wRC+ to Cabrera's 167 wRC+; 58.5 offensive runs to Cabrera's 50.9).

So yes, defense is the huge difference here. Trout is an amazing defensive CF, while Cabrera has a well below-average glove at his position.

This isn't basketball or football where defense alone can win games yes good defense will save runs that will win games from time to time , but overall Cabrera should win.

Overall, Trout is wayyyy better. Players who hit, run, and field are more valuable than players who just hit.

Tim brought up WAR, which attempts to encapsulate a player's contribution to his team into a win total, with the baseline being a replacement player. Depending on who you look at, Trout is worth 3 (Fangraphs) to 4 (baseball-reference) more wins to his team than Cabrera is to his.

[daflyboys]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I'd like to see Aoki win it over Harper for NL ROY.

[redsrule]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Neither Harper or Aoki will win the Rookie of the Year imo. It is going to be either Miley or Frazier (who has been terrible lately).

[Sportsforever]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Kimbrel hasn't even been the best reliever in baseball this year.

Rodney has a higher WAR and a much better ERA+

I can't tell if this post is serious. First off, their WAR's are almost identical. Secondly, I could give two craps about ERA, especially for a reliever.

Look at these numbers:

H/9, BB/9, K/9
Rodney 5.1 1.8 8.8
Kimbrel 3.9 2.1 16.2

Kimbrel has been the best reliever in baseball this year (Chapman would be 2nd IMO).

[p_rushing]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

The guys who are saying Kimbrel isn't the best reliever this year, look at the ESPN article, actually read it. Kimbrel is having the best year of a reliever in live ball era and arguably the best season ever since 1900.

[rdnk]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

My predictions on what will happen:

AL MVP: Cabby
NL MVP: Braun

AL Cy Young: Price
NL Cy Young: Dickey

AL ROY: Trout
NL ROY: Miley

AL Manager: Showalter
NL Manager: Baker

[DrJones]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

The guys who are saying Kimbrel isn't the best reliever this year, look at the ESPN article, actually read it. Kimbrel is having the best year of a reliever in live ball era and arguably the best season ever since 1900.

Pound-for-pound, one can certainly make that argument. To me, relievers who threw 140+ IP with a sub 2 ERA (see Dan Quisenberry's 1983 season, for example) were more valuable than someone like Kimbrel, although it's not his fault. 60 IP is low even considering modern closer usage.

I don't think Kimbrel's chances are good. Sabermetricians are predisposed to discount relievers because of their low IP, "traditional" stats types will see "only" 39-40 saves. Eric Gagne in 2003 had the benefit of HGH...I mean the benefit of a 55-for-55 season in addition to numbers that were almost as dominating as Kimbrel's.

I'd be surprised if someone other than Gio or Dickey won.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I'd say Gonzalez will win, but Kimbrel probably SHOULD win.

[55]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Nobody that has only pitched 60 innings should ever win.

[snepp]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

He "should" win the Rolaids Relief Man award.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I'm of the thought that yeah, Cy Young should probably be exclusive to starters only, but since it's been given to relievers in the past, then I guess any pitcher IS fair game.