MLB Off-Topic

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

MLB announced that starting this year and going forward, Sept. 15th will be Roberto Clemente Day.

EDIT: Based on Joey Votto's jersey, all players might be wearing 21.

Watching Rays/Jays game at work and they are wearing regular numbers.

At least Michael Wacha was wearing 52

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Watching Rays/Jays game at work and they are wearing regular numbers.



At least Michael Wacha was wearing 52

Seems like its optional, but only if you're on the Pirates, from Puerto Rico, a current nominee, or past winner of the Roberto Clemente award. Everyone else has a patch.


Bo Bichette is Jays nominee this year, so he's wearing 21. Some Jays coached who are from Puerto Rico are wearing 21 too.

[Jeffrey Smith]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Watching Rays/Jays game at work and they are wearing regular numbers.



At least Michael Wacha was wearing 52

Noticed both teams are wearing #21 patches though.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Interesting comments from Morosi about MVP voting.

He says he has a vote this year, and sounds like he's not voting Ohtani. He is voting for stats, not "historic moments".

Which he then brings up the debate. Let's say Ohtani does win MVP this year. Then, he continues having similar seasons in the future. Is he still getting the MVP year after year, or will the novelty wear off/people take what he's doing for granted, and continue voting the way they usually do, by awarding it to the best offensive player.

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I'm looking at Fangraph, AL leaders in WAR are Vlad at 6.3, Semien at 6.2. Ohtani is at 4.7 for offense and he gets another 2.7 for his pitching, that's 7.4 WAR (leads MLB) while pitching as a starter and being a regular position player.

In baseball reference Ohtani is leading with 7.7 WAR (leads MLB), next AL player is Semien at 6.6, Vlad is at 6.0.

At Baseball Prospectus: Ohtani 7.1 WAR (leads MLB), Vlad at 5.8, Semien at 4.8

If he keeps doing this year after year, we can keep giving him the MVP year after year. But there is no need to jump into the future, lets deal with this year.

[The Kid 24]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

So...is the verdict that he's a steroid user still?

As a Brewers fan, I wont answer that… Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[DrJones]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

He says he has a vote this year, and sounds like he's not voting Ohtani. He is voting for stats, not "historic moments".

If someone thinks that MVP should be reserved for batters or for players on postseason teams, then fine, be up front with that. But someone who wouldn't vote for Ohtani based on... stats? What? Ohtani's stats are exactly what are making his season historic!

In the very unlikely event of Ohtani being able to replicate this season, ie being a top-15 hitter AND a top-15 starter in the league, then yes, he should win MVP every season!

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

If someone thinks that MVP should be reserved for batters or for players on postseason teams, then fine, be up front with that. But someone who wouldn't vote for Ohtani based on... stats? What? Ohtani's stats are exactly what are making his season historic!

In the very unlikely event of Ohtani being able to replicate this season, ie being a top-15 hitter AND a top-15 starter in the league, then yes, he should win MVP every season!

What about somebody being a top 15 hitter and a top 15 defender in the league? What about being a DH in the games that he's not pitching?

His pitching contributions are only once every 6 games. Defenders play every day. No DH has ever won the MVP either.

I don't know if those are parts of Morosi's arguments, but those would be valid ones against voting for him if there was somebody else who he felt deserved it more. Forget "historic" this and that.

Who deserves it more? That's up to the voter.

[dubcity]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Maybe I'm old school, but I want arguments for MVP, HoF, All-star to be able to made without using WAR. That can't be the be all end all

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Yeah, that ship sailed. If someone has a comfortable lead on WAR (Ohtani's lead isn't actually that comfortable) that's who's winning the MVP/Cy Young most likely. But hey, if the WAR is close you still get arguments

Plus it isn't just WAR, Ohtani has WAR and the narrative "historic, pitcher/hitter" argument that many old school people like.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You’re never going to have a better stat to compare with because clearly no amount of saying “this hasn’t been done for 100 years” will work. I saw on Reddit a guy make the argument that maybe there’s a reason guys don’t do this, because it’s more valuable to have a guy on one side of the ball or another. But WAR does the calculations for us.

[DrJones]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

What about somebody being a top 15 hitter and a top 15 defender in the league? What about being a DH in the games that he's not pitching?

His pitching contributions are only once every 6 games. Defenders play every day. No DH has ever won the MVP either.

I don't know if those are parts of Morosi's arguments, but those would be valid ones against voting for him if there was somebody else who he felt deserved it more. Forget "historic" this and that.

Who deserves it more? That's up to the voter.

"His pitching contributions are only once every 6 games. Defenders play every day."

Because top-15 hitters and top-15 starters provide more value than top-15 defenders? Or is the market grossly undervaluing top glove men? Should Kevin Kiermaier (an unquestionably top defensive CF over the last 5 years or so, while providing middling offensive value) be making as much as say, Gerrit Cole?

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

"His pitching contributions are only once every 6 games. Defenders play every day."

Because top-15 hitters and top-15 starters provide more value than top-15 defenders? Or is the market grossly undervaluing top glove men? Should Kevin Kiermaier (an unquestionably top defensive CF over the last 5 years or so, while providing middling offensive value) be making as much as say, Gerrit Cole?

I gotcha. I was also bringing up the point that the DH get a negative rap for not playing both sides of the ball. They don't have as much to have to take care of on the daily. In 2006, David Ortiz was 3rd place in MVP voting with a line that trumped Justin Morneau and Derek Jeter in everywhere offensive statistic but batting average (including better WAR). Never received a first place vote, either.

Shohei clearly is not exclusively a DH, but he is most of the time. I mean he only had 22 starts pitching, it's not like he's nearing 30. I'm just trying to decide whether his pitching contributions (not performance mind you, just contributions) are trouncing that of an elite defender to the point that just being Top 15 in there with his offensive numbers guarantees him the top of the heap in everyone's eyes.

Don't get me wrong, Shohei is not only my guy (I stop and watch him all the time, have in on fantasy as a DH and pitcher as separate players, and would consider him the MVP this year), but if there is someone that is better than him there are arguments against Shohei's run as well for being considered among the tippy-top.

For me, it's his stolen bases that put him up and over the edge combined with everything else. Guy is a machine. Guerrero is having a great year, but I still put Ohtani above him no question, and those stolen bases actually really help IMO. Would be the first "for a DH" though, so I'm wondering how the voters think on that despite his pitching accolades.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Maybe I'm old school, but I want arguments for MVP, HoF, All-star to be able to made without using WAR. That can't be the be all end all

2002 Miguel Tejada likes this post.

[DieHardYankee26]

MLB Off-Topic

Fangraphs was created in 2009, bbref added it in 2009. WAR existed, but I don’t think I knew what it was until Ben Zobrist blew up.