MLB Off-Topic

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Good for you. I believe individuals should be free to do whatever they want to their body as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else directly and deal with the consequences. If MLB wants to ban tobacco use on the field (dugouts too) they can. No need for the government to get involved.

Going by this logic, everyone should be free to do whatever drugs they want. Who's to say there isn't a competitive advantage from the buzz that you get from dipping or chewing? Or from nullifying the withdrawal effects? Wouldn't that make it a PED?

The government had to step in to get baseball to ban PEDs. It's obvious the MLB has no intention to do anything about it and the MLBPA would never agree to it even if they did. It's going to have to take government intervention to get it out of the game.

[dickey1331]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Going by this logic, everyone should be free to do whatever drugs they want. Who's to say there isn't a competitive advantage from the buzz that you get from dipping or chewing? Or from nullifying the withdrawal effects? Wouldn't that make it a PED?

The government had to step in to get baseball to ban PEDs. It's obvious the MLB has no intention to do anything about it and the MLBPA would never agree to it even if they did. It's going to have to take government intervention to get it out of the game.

But drugs are illegal. Tobacco is not. If someone wants to die of cancer then let them.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

But drugs are illegal. Tobacco is not. If someone wants to die of cancer then let them.

It's not about one person dieing of cancer. It's about the epidemic in the game. Tobacco is associated with baseball. It's about ending that association.

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's not about one person dieing of cancer. It's about the epidemic in the game. Tobacco is associated with baseball. It's about ending that association.

Should we also ban sunflower seeds from the game?

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Should we also ban sunflower seeds from the game?

Quite a jump to make.

I'm saying that it's not about 1 person making the decision to use a carcinogenic substance. I'm saying that this carcinogenic substance has a notorious link with the sport which leads to widespread use, and that any step taken to end that association should be applauded.

[dickey1331]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Are sunflower seeds addictive and cause life-threatening health issues?

I don't see the connection at all.

Should we ban soda being sold at the ballpark?

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Should we ban soda being sold at the ballpark?

Probably so.

Again, we can't get into the politics of why tobacco is legal but many other more destructive drugs aren't. I just don't understand why people are against trying to get it out of the game.

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Quite a jump to make.

I'm saying that it's not about 1 person making the decision to use a carcinogenic substance. I'm saying that this carcinogenic substance has a notorious link with the sport which leads to widespread use, and that any step taken to end that association should be applauded.

It's not a jump at all.

If you want to talk about the heath ramifications of it, you won't get an argument from me.

But you are saying we should pick and choose which legal substances shouldn't be used by baseball players.


Should we tell them they can't have any alcohol after games either? That is no different than telling them they can't chew tobacco.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's not a jump at all.

If you want to talk about the heath ramifications of it, you won't get an argument from me.

But you are saying we should pick and choose which legal substances shouldn't be used by baseball players.


Should we tell them they can't have any alcohol after games either? That is no different than telling them they can't chew tobacco.

I never said they shouldn't be able chew tobacco at all.. just not at the stadium. That's what the lawmaker is trying to do; get tobacco out of baseball fields/stadiums and therefore cut the association between the two which has permeated for decades and makes baseball players exponentially more likely to use chewing tobacco than the normal human.

Where did I say we should pick and choose? The only reason tobacco isn't banned is because it's legal. I'm pretty sure the Rockies aren't allowed to smoke weed on the field during home games... or chew weed, I suppose.

To answer your last question, yes they shouldn't have alcohol at the stadium after games. Considering most guys drive themselves to the park, I think that's a pretty smart idea.

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I never said they shouldn't be able chew tobacco at all.. just not at the stadium. That's what the lawmaker is trying to do; get tobacco out of baseball fields/stadiums and therefore cut the association between the two which has permeated for decades and makes baseball players exponentially more likely to use chewing tobacco than the normal human.

So basically we are debating morals and that's not going to change either way.

You think someone should be able to regulate someones choice of the crap they put in their body and I'm okay with it being their own choice.

I'm okay with leaving it at that.


I have no issue with some advocating for better health but I don't like it being forced on anyone I guess.

Where did I say we should pick and choose? The only reason tobacco isn't banned is because it's legal. I'm pretty sure the Rockies aren't allowed to smoke weed on the field during home games... or chew weed, I suppose.

Since smoking weed is specifically banned at Coors no they can't smoke it on the field. Also, since weed is banned by the CBA I'm pretty sure that won't be an issue.

Chew weed? Don't know if you are being a smartass or if I'm naive to something but I don't even know what that means.

You accused me of reaching????

To answer your last question, yes they shouldn't have alcohol at the stadium after games. Considering most guys drive themselves to the park, I think that's a pretty smart idea.

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant so I'm not even going to respond to this.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

So basically we are debating morals and that's not going to change either way.

You think someone should be able to regulate someones choice of the crap they put in their body and I'm okay with it being their own choice.

I'm okay with leaving it at that.


I have no issue with some advocating for better health but I don't like it being forced on anyone I guess.

Again, it's part of the politics of tobacco being legal while other, less harmful, drugs are not. It's only okay because it's legal. Unless you're okay with people doing other things that are equally harmful, but might be illegal, because it's their own body.

It's also only at the stadiums; their workplace. It's not saying they can never chew tobacco.. just not at "work" which is pretty standard for the vast majority of jobs.

Since smoking weed is specifically banned at Coors no they can't smoke it on the field. Also, since weed is banned by the CBA I'm pretty sure that won't be an issue.

Chew weed? Don't know if you are being a smartass or if I'm naive to something but I don't even know what that means.

You accused me of reaching????

The chew weed was just making a more apt comparison. But you can eat weed (think pot brownies/cookies/etc.).

Weed wasn't a good comparison because it's only legal in a few states, not nationally. Maybe alcohol is better. If there was a way for players to consume alcohol while being able to compete, would there be an issue?

Tobacco is associated with the sport. I've never seen athletes in any of the other major sports using it while playing. Maybe football because it's hard to see their faces, as I have seen quite a few players dipping on the sideline after they're done for the game or aren't suited up to play.

I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant so I'm not even going to respond to this.

I took it as you insinuating that I think anything that is harmful toward the players be restricted. And I do.. when they're at their "workplace". Again.. pretty standard throughout the country.

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Again, it's part of the politics of tobacco being legal while other, less harmful, drugs are not. It's only okay because it's legal. Unless you're okay with people doing other things that are equally harmful, but might be illegal, because it's their own body.

I think this is going to have to be one of those "agree to disagree" things since we can't really get into it here.

I frankly don't care what anyone does to themselves by their own choice. I will say that if I'm reading between the lines correctly I don't disagree with you but will just leave it at that.

It's also only at the stadiums; their workplace. It's not saying they can never chew tobacco.. just not at "work" which is pretty standard for the vast majority of jobs.

It may be standard in Colorado now but it is not standard throughout the country.

I have never been at a workplace (several states, including Colorado Springs for a brief period) that limits either cigarette smoking or tobacco....

The chew weed was just making a more apt comparison. But you can eat weed (think pot brownies/cookies/etc.).

If they weren't worried about drug tests there would be nothing stopping players from eating pot brownies so they can have at it.

Weed wasn't a good comparison because it's only legal in a few states, not nationally. Maybe alcohol is better. If there was a way for players to consume alcohol while being able to compete, would there be an issue?

Surely. Not sure where I suggested otherwise since tobacco doesn't provide the same affect as alcohol.

Tobacco is associated with the sport. I've never seen athletes in any of the other major sports using it while playing. Maybe football because it's hard to see their faces, as I have seen quite a few players dipping on the sideline after they're done for the game or aren't suited up to play.

It's a habit that can actually be utilized while playing. It doesn't mean it's unique to baseball players though. There are plenty of football and hockey players that chew regularly off the field.

I took it as you insinuating that I think anything that is harmful toward the players be restricted. And I do.. when they're at their "workplace". Again.. pretty standard throughout the country.

No. That really isn't standard throughout the country.

I've worked for many companies in my life. Never once have I worked with one who told their employees they weren't allowed to smoke.

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Going by this logic, everyone should be free to do whatever drugs they want.

The general population? They should. I believe pretty much all drugs should decriminalize/legalize. That doesn't mean I want players snorting cocaine in the dugout. Banning smokeless tobacco might be a worthwhile goal but I simply don't think legislation is the right way to go.

Who's to say there isn't a competitive advantage from the buzz that you get from dipping or chewing? Or from nullifying the withdrawal effects? Wouldn't that make it a PED?

Well, are you just shooting from the hip or do you have any evidence?

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think this is going to have to be one of those "agree to disagree" things since we can't really get into it here.

I frankly don't care what anyone does to themselves by their own choice. I will say that if I'm reading between the lines correctly I don't disagree with you but will just leave it at that.

Fair enough. Can't really have that discussion here, which is quite alright.

It may be standard in Colorado now but it is not standard throughout the country.

I have never been at a workplace (several states, including Colorado Springs for a brief period) that limits either cigarette smoking or tobacco....

This I find very interesting. I've never worked a job where I was allowed to smoke or chew tobacco on premises. This is probably getting off-topic, so you can ignore if necessary, but you're saying at every job you've ever had, you could smoke or chew tobacco while working on-site?

Surely. Not sure where I suggested otherwise since tobacco doesn't provide the same affect as alcohol.

I was under the impression the only reason you would be against weed on the field is because it's banned/illegal at the stadium. Alcohol isn't, so that's why I brought it up. But they do have very different effects.

It's a habit that can actually be utilized while playing. It doesn't mean it's unique to baseball players though. There are plenty of football and hockey players that chew regularly off the field.

Yes, off the field. I keep saying.. the lawmaker (which is where all of this started) isn't trying to ban tobacco use altogether. Just on the field/at the stadium. I don't have stats to confirm this, but I would imagine tobacco use with football/hockey players isn't near the level it is for baseball players. But that's just conjecture on my part from my own experiences with each sport (admittedly very limited with hockey).

No. That really isn't standard throughout the country.

I've worked for many companies in my life. Never once have I worked with one who told their employees they weren't allowed to smoke.

This question was specifically addressing alcohol, but I've never had a job that allowed me to drink at work/on work premises during work hours. And even drinking on work premises after work, it was a restricted amount. In regards to tobacco, I'll just redirect to my earlier question about tobacco use at work.

I'll end with this: my whole point of bringing this up is an attempt to break the cycle of tobacco use in baseball. Legal or not, personal right or not, the fact that the game is so closely with tobacco is a bad thing in my mind. It infiltrates the youth level and permeates from there. I took my first dip my Freshman year of high school, and luckily didn't stick with it. But I know plenty of 14-16 year olds that go through 2+ cans per week and have no grasp of the long-term consequences (a common trait among teenagers).

Anything that anyone, lawmaker with "better things to do" or random Joe, will be supported by me 100%.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Well, are you just shooting from the hip or do you have any evidence?

I'm being a bit facetious, but it's not far-fetched to think that someone playing with a buzz could gain a competitive advantage. Whether it be from a relaxed or heightened state, increasing concentration/focus from not experiencing withdrawal symptoms associated with a physical addiction to the drug, or whatever the case may be.