2016 H.O.F Discussion

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Yea Blzer it's hilarious on those 4. And on Bonds and ultimately Clemens and A-Rod. I listen to a sports radio here in Boston and one of the guys has a HOF ballot. So today and the past 6 years he releases his ballot on air and then they talk about the candidates. And he is one of the guys that has always voted for Bonds and Clemens. He uses the eye test and I agree that's the way you need to do it nowadays. Meaning Clemens and Bonds even without PEDs would be HOF caliber players. And that's the way I would vote on guys. No matter numbers, PED suspicions, etc. did he look like a HOF guy?

[thaima1shu]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Because there are troglodytes who take the view that since the greatest of all-time wasn't unanimous, no one should be.

Every year, people think legendary Player X will be the first unanimous selection and every year, a handful of jokers submit blank ballots in the name of pious gatekeeping.

I definitely had to look up with troglodytes meant.

[Knight165]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Because there are troglodytes who take the view that since the greatest of all-time wasn't unanimous, no one should be.

Every year, people think legendary Player X will be the first unanimous selection and every year, a handful of jokers submit blank ballots in the name of pious gatekeeping.

So if you're saying it shouldn't matter to them that a better player wasn't unanimous......
Why should it matter to anyone else if it wasn't unanimous and he gets in?

M.K.
Knight165

[Master Live 013]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Ha, the hunt is on to find the 3 votes. This could get ugly.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Ha, the hunt is on to find the 3 votes. This could get ugly.

No one is going to claim them. Just like the missing votes for everyone else like Maddux, Seaver, Ruth, Cobb, Aaron, etc.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Bagwell will get in next year, but sheesh what a stupid game they're playing with him...

.297/.408 (39th all time)/.540 (32nd all time) /.948 OPS (21st all time)
2111 games played at 1B (11th all time)
449 HRs
1529 RBI
1517 Runs
202 SB (yeah, this dude that most of us remember bowing out with a bad back had a 40-30 season in 1999)
149 wRC+
.405 wOBA
80.2 fWAR / 79.6 bWAR / 63.9 JAWS (average 1B HoF'er 54.2 JAWS)
career +3.9 UZR/150 at 1B (only being measured in his later years after he'd lost a lot of athleticism)
1991 NL ROY
1994 NL MVP (batted .368)
3 top 3 finishes in MVP

He had the longevity. He had the peak. He had the gaudy counting numbers and won an MVP. No reason he should've had to wait half a decade for voters to realize this.

[19]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Ha, the hunt is on to find the 3 votes. This could get ugly.

Somebody will in this social media/look at me world. I'm sure TMZ is operating at DEFCON 1 as we speak.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

So if you're saying it shouldn't matter to them that a better player wasn't unanimous......
Why should it matter to anyone else if it wasn't unanimous and he gets in?

M.K.
Knight165

Honestly, it shouldn't matter. Fun to talk and speculate about, but when push comes to shove, it's about who gets a bronze plaque in a certain part of the museum.

OP wanted to know why Griffey wasn't unanimous. I gave him the answer. I don't think this is about me taking the process seriously as much as it is the BBWAA taking their jobs TOO seriously.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Somebody will in this social media/look at me world. I'm sure TMZ is operating at DEFCON 1 as we speak.

Really how come we didn't find out all the guys that didn't vote Maddux and Johnson last season?

[Knight165]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Honestly, it shouldn't matter. Fun to talk and speculate about, but when push comes to shove, it's about who gets a bronze plaque in a certain part of the museum.

OP wanted to know why Griffey wasn't unanimous. I gave him the answer. I don't think this is about me taking the process seriously as much as it is the BBWAA taking their jobs TOO seriously.

I hear you.
Heck....WTNY's point on Bags bothers me way more than Griffey not going in unanimous.
That's some nonsense IMO.

M.K.
Knight165

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

I hear you.
Heck....WTNY's point on Bags bothers me way more than Griffey not going in unanimous.
That's some nonsense IMO.

M.K.
Knight165

It bothers the bejeezus out of me. And we haven't even mentioned his inner-circle HoF batting stance. That's a Top 10 stance all time, imo.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

It bothers the bejeezus out of me. And we haven't even mentioned his inner-circle HoF batting stance. That's a Top 10 stance all time, imo.

Really only top 10??? Top 5 for me along with the great Tony Batista.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Really only top 10??? Top 5 for me along with the great Tony Batista.

No, see, by saying Top 10 I am just leaving myself more wiggle room.

[Blzer]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Bagwell will get in next year, but sheesh what a stupid game they're playing with him...

.297/.408 (39th all time)/.540 (32nd all time) /.948 OPS (21st all time)
2111 games played at 1B (11th all time)
449 HRs
1529 RBI
1517 Runs
202 SB (yeah, this dude that most of us remember bowing out with a bad back had a 40-30 season in 1999)
149 wRC+
.405 wOBA
80.2 fWAR / 79.6 bWAR / 63.9 JAWS (average 1B HoF'er 54.2 JAWS)
career +3.9 UZR/150 at 1B (only being measured in his later years after he'd lost a lot of athleticism)
1991 NL ROY
1994 NL MVP (batted .368)
3 top 3 finishes in MVP

He had the longevity. He had the peak. He had the gaudy counting numbers and won an MVP. No reason he should've had to wait half a decade for voters to realize this.

Player B:

.298/.444 (6th all time)/.607 (5th all time) /1.051 OPS (4th all time)
2715 games played at LF (don't know where to find ranking?)
762 HRs
1996 RBI
2227 Runs
514 SB (had a 40-40 season in 1996); (only member of the 500 HR/500 SB club)
173 wRC+
.439 wOBA
164.4 fWAR / 162.4 bWAR / 117.5 JAWS (average LF HoF'er 53.3 JAWS)
career +0.9 UZR/150 at LF (okay, not great)
1990, '92, '93, 2001, '02, '03, '04 NL MVP
1990, '91, '92, '93, '94, '96, '97, '98, '99 NL GG
9 top 3 finishes in MVP

Pick any two players in the Hall of Fame. Player B has more MVP awards than both of them combined.

If Player B had retired after his age-27 season, he would have done so with 50.1 career bWAR, more than 42 Hall of Fame position players.

Player B opened the 2004 season with a stretch in which he reached base 45 times in 64 plate appearances, with nine home runs and four strikeouts.

Player B took the extra base—advancing more than one base on a single, or more than two on a double—43 percent of the time, more often than Ichiro Suzuki.

Player B made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

No reason he should've had to wait half a decade for voters to realize this.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Player B:

.298/.444 (6th all time)/.607 (5th all time) /1.051 OPS (4th all time)
2715 games played at LF (don't know where to find ranking?)
762 HRs
1996 RBI
2227 Runs
514 SB (had a 40-40 season in 1996); (only member of the 500 HR/500 SB club)
173 wRC+
.439 wOBA
164.4 fWAR / 162.4 bWAR / 117.5 JAWS (average LF HoF'er 53.3 JAWS)
career +0.9 UZR/150 at LF (okay, not great)
1990, '92, '93, 2001, '02, '03, '04 NL MVP
1990, '91, '92, '93, '94, '96, '97, '98, '99 NL GG
9 top 3 finishes in MVP

Pick any two players in the Hall of Fame. Player B has more MVP awards than both of them combined.

If Player B had retired after his age-27 season, he would have done so with 50.1 career bWAR, more than 42 Hall of Fame position players.

Player B opened the 2004 season with a stretch in which he reached base 45 times in 64 plate appearances, with nine home runs and four strikeouts.

Player B took the extra base—advancing more than one base on a single, or more than two on a double—43 percent of the time, more often than Ichiro Suzuki.

Player B made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

No reason he should've had to wait half a decade for voters to realize this.

2715 games ranks as 1st all time in LF for your Player B. Gee, I wonder who that could be...