"This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[PhantomPain]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

You are overlooking his defense Stubbs is one of the best center fielders in the game rarely get's burned and has the speed to make all the plays. Obviously in a perfect world he would hit better but he gets on streaks good and bad. The Reds are a better team with Stubbs than without him.

Not overlooking it at all and have stated several times he is a great defensive outfielder. But since when do great defensive outfielders that can't hit start for an MLB team and bat first or second...continually?

Again, I would be less upset about him playing if he batted 7th or 8th or platooning with heisey. But Dusty has one of the most backwards philosophies in baseball when thinking that guys that have high obp just clog the base paths. It's asinine.

[redsrule]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

Not to get all technical on you but I think you meant to say Cal is a great college recruiter.

Recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.
He is a good college basketball coach.

Not overlooking it at all and have stated several times he is a great defensive outfielder. But since when do great defensive outfielders that can't hit start for an MLB team and bat first or second...continually?

Again, I would be less upset about him playing if he batted 7th it 8th or platooning with heisey. But Dusty has one of the most backwards philosophies in baseball when thinking that guys that have high obp just clog the base paths. It's asinine.

I agree completely. It's not like the run much anyway, so it doesn't make sense to me why a guy like Hanigan isn't hitting second, even though he is hitting about .290 and makes solid contact.



Also:

Spoiler

[jake44np]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[QUOTE=redsrule;2044088221]Recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.
He is a good college basketball coach.




I agree completely. It's not like the run much anyway, so it doesn't make sense to me why a guy like Hanigan isn't hitting second, even though he is hitting about .290 and makes solid contact.

It kills me when people say Hannigan should bat second. Lol
The guy would clog up the bases when he got on. It takes 3 hits to score him from first. Votto is a doubles machine and Hannigan would never score on his doubles. Besides that u would have to rearrange ur line up when he doesn't play and he is a catcher who only plays 4 out of every 7 games. No way ur going to bat the other catcher 2nd. He does great batting 8 th. One reason his ob% is so high is he bats in front of theY pitcher, pitchers pitch around him when there on men on base to face the pitcher.

[PhantomPain]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[QUOTE=jake44np;2044088843]

Recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.
He is a good college basketball coach.




I agree completely. It's not like the run much anyway, so it doesn't make sense to me why a guy like Hanigan isn't hitting second, even though he is hitting about .290 and makes solid contact.

It kills me when people say Hannigan should bat second. Lol
The guy would clog up the bases when he got on. It takes 3 hits to score him from first. Votto is a doubles machine and Hannigan would never score on his doubles. Besides that u would have to rearrange ur line up when he doesn't play and he is a catcher who only plays 4 out of every 7 games. No way ur going to bat the other catcher 2nd. He does great batting 8 th. One reason his ob% is so high is he bats in front of theY pitcher, pitchers pitch around him when there on men on base to face the pitcher.

Having him on base when Votto gets up is MUCH better than Votto having no one on base. And, if Hanigan doesn't score on Votto's doubles, then that leaves 2 men on, in scoring position, for Ludwick. Still better than 1 man on (Votto) for Ludwick.

Sounds better than Votto getting up with 2 outs and no one on.

Edited to add: If Cozart or Stubbs is batting 8th, then maybe they can be more productive as well. To me, it sounds like something to, at the very least, try for a week and see how it works out.

2nd Edit: Jake, I know you are a Dusty supporter, but you may be going too far with the "clog up the bases" comment.

[Son of Sam99]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

Here is the heart of the matter from Grantland.com


How rare is this configuration on a winning team? Try this. According to Elias Sports Bureau, in the history of baseball, only 11 World Series winners have regularly started multiple position players with on-base percentages of .290 or lower; none of those teams have batted two sub-.290 OBP guys 1-2 in the order. If the Reds win it all with Cozart and Stubbs setting the table with torn paper plates and dirty napkins, they'll have accomplished something no other team has done in 100 years.


Article: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...riches-problem

[redsrule]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[quote=jake44np;2044088843]

Recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.
He is a good college basketball coach.




I agree completely. It's not like the run much anyway, so it doesn't make sense to me why a guy like Hanigan isn't hitting second, even though he is hitting about .290 and makes solid contact.

It kills me when people say Hannigan should bat second. Lol
The guy would clog up the bases when he got on. It takes 3 hits to score him from first. Votto is a doubles machine and Hannigan would never score on his doubles. Besides that u would have to rearrange ur line up when he doesn't play and he is a catcher who only plays 4 out of every 7 games. No way ur going to bat the other catcher 2nd. He does great batting 8 th. One reason his ob% is so high is he bats in front of theY pitcher, pitchers pitch around him when there on men on base to face the pitcher.

So? It might take 3 hits to score him, but it is better than having a .220 Stubbs up there who is never on base. aif he gets good pitches b/c he is batting 8th, why not put Stubbs back there and see if it helps him get his hitting back together? If you want someone with speed to bat up there, what about having Heisey play CF and bat second then?
The lineup would look something like: Phillips. Heisey, Votto, Ludwick, Bruce, Rolen, Cozart, Hanigan, Pitcher?


At PP, Dusty could just move Cozart back to the 7 hole & have Stubbs 8th.

[PhantomPain]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[QUOTE=jake44np;2044088843]

Recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.
He is a good college basketball coach.




I agree completely. It's not like the run much anyway, so it doesn't make sense to me why a guy like Hanigan isn't hitting second, even though he is hitting about .290 and makes solid contact.

It kills me when people say Hannigan should bat second. Lol
The guy would clog up the bases when he got on. It takes 3 hits to score him from first. Votto is a doubles machine and Hannigan would never score on his doubles. Besides that u would have to rearrange ur line up when he doesn't play and he is a catcher who only plays 4 out of every 7 games. No way ur going to bat the other catcher 2nd. He does great batting 8 th. One reason his ob% is so high is he bats in front of theY pitcher, pitchers pitch around him when there on men on base to face the pitcher.

Jake, are you Mark Sheldon? :wink:

Second post down after Chapman MLB Network Feature:

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/

[lonewolf371]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

Why is everyone talking about batting average? It's a useless statistic. Getting on base is by far the most valuable thing a player can do. The second most valuable thing is hitting the ball really hard. Hanigan gets on base and Votto hits the ball hard, that means runs. Stubbs shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the lineup.

[Buckeyes_Doc]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

I can't say enough about Reds pitching. It has been so consistent all year season. Another quality start, another save.

[jake44np]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[QUOTE=PhantomPain;2044099371]

Jake, are you Mark Sheldon? :wink:

Second post down after Chapman MLB Network Feature:

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/

He is a very smart man! There is a reason he gets paid to write about baseball and we dont.

Saw Larkin talking about this over the weekend.
Can you imagine what would happen to Dusty if he moved around the whole line up when Votto comes back and the Reds really struggle? They have the best (or 2nd best depending on the day) record in baseball yet everyone wants to mess with the line up. Let me repeat they have the best record in baseball, what they (what Dusty) is doing is working. Leave it alone! Did i mention they have the best record in baseball?
Like i said Larkin was on the other night and this is what he was saying and i totally agree!

[PhantomPain]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[QUOTE=jake44np;2044113409]

He is a very smart man! There is a reason he gets paid to write about baseball and we dont.

Saw Larkin talking about this over the weekend.
Can you imagine what would happen to Dusty if he moved around the whole line up when Votto comes back and the Reds really struggle? They have the best (or 2nd best depending on the day) record in baseball yet everyone wants to mess with the line up. Let me repeat they have the best record in baseball, what they (what Dusty) is doing is working. Leave it alone! Did i mention they have the best record in baseball?
Like i said Larkin was on the other night and this is what he was saying and i totally agree!

Ha! Like Barry Freaking Larkin has a clue! I kid, I kid. I still contend you need a better start of the lineup for the playoffs. I have noticed there have been a lot of games where the starting pitcher shuts us down and then we get to a reliever. Against the best pitchers in the league that "come back" may never get a chance
With that said and like I said earlier, if we contend for the pennant it better, I will back off Dusty. At least publicly!

[Buckeyes_Doc]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[quote=PhantomPain;2044113434]

Ha! Like Barry Freaking Larkin has a clue! I kid, I kid. I still contend you need a better start of the lineup for the playoffs. I have noticed there have been a lot of games where the starting pitcher shuts us down and then we get to a reliever. Against the best pitchers in the league that "come back" may never get a chance
With that said and like I said earlier, if we contend for the pennant it better, I will back off Dusty. At least publicly!

It seems the most of those starting pitchers who shut us down are guys who should not shut us down at all. Young guys, who don't have a lot to show for the season, yet they can shut down the Reds. Maybe it hasn't happened as much as I think it has, but it is frustrating when it does.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

It seems the most of those starting pitchers who shut us down are guys who should not shut us down at all. Young guys, who don't have a lot to show for the season, yet they can shut down the Reds. Maybe it hasn't happened as much as I think it has, but it is frustrating when it does.

I think it has happened as much as you think it has.

[PhantomPain]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

[QUOTE=Buckeyes_Doc;2044113933]

It seems the most of those starting pitchers who shut us down are guys who should not shut us down at all. Young guys, who don't have a lot to show for the season, yet they can shut down the Reds. Maybe it hasn't happened as much as I think it has, but it is frustrating when it does.

That's pretty much my point, Doc. If the Reds are struggling against mediocre or rookie pitchers, then get hot against the bullpen, what happens when they face great pitchers that don't need a bullpen that much? In the playoffs, that's what will happen if we can't get some offense started off early.

[Motown]

Re: "This one belongs to Reds fans" Official 2012 Cincinnati Reds

Dusty might be a candidate for the next Bo Sox skipper...stay tuned