2021 Atlanta Braves

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  • LowerWolf
    Hall Of Fame
    • Jun 2006
    • 12270

    #106
    Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

    Trying to figure out what the post-deadline 26-man roster will look like.

    C: Vogt
    1B: Freddie
    2B: Ozzie
    3B: Riley
    SS: Dansby
    LF: Duvall
    CF: Heredia
    RF: Joc

    C: Smith
    IF: Arcia
    OF: Soler
    OF: Almonte
    Util: Adrianza

    Smith and Almonte gone when d'Arnaud and Rosario return.

    SP: Morton
    SP: Smyly
    SP: Fried
    SP: Muller
    SP: Touki

    RP: Smith
    RP: Rodriguez
    RP: Martin
    RP: Greene
    RP: Jackson
    RP: Matzek
    RP: Chavez
    RP: Tomlin

    Although Newk could stick around as another lefty with Greene being DFA'd I guess since Greene hasn't been great. Tomlin probably survives.

    Edit: Forgot about Santana. Maybe we stick with a nine-man pen?

    Ynoa to the pen when he's healthy and Touki to the pen when/if Anderson comes back.
    Last edited by LowerWolf; 07-30-2021, 04:30 PM.

    Comment

    • KSUowls
      All Star
      • Jul 2009
      • 5893

      #107
      Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

      Ynoa's 2 pitch mix definitely profiles in the pen more, but as dominant as he was as a starter prior to the injury I really hate the idea of not seeing if he can live off that 2 pitch mix and find a 3rd. But, in retaining Morton and Smyly there just isn't room for him. Also, we need his bat lol.

      Muller could also end up in the pen with his control issues, but at the same time, you want to see if he can command his pitches because if he can then he's a serious threat in the rotation. Same with Touki. His problem has always been command because he has great stuff. Unfortunately because of the decisions that AA made, we're not going to get to see these guys get an extended look in the rotation to prove that they can throw strikes. We'll have to wait until next year in a fresh start to the division race to watch them learn on the job.

      Comment

      • canes21
        Hall Of Fame
        • Sep 2008
        • 22931

        #108
        Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

        Not to break up the trade talks, but I was just looking at our schedule & results and noticed that since the ASB we've literally not lost nor won 2 games in a row. It's been loss-win-loss-win on repeat.
        “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


        ― Plato

        Comment

        • LowerWolf
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jun 2006
          • 12270

          #109
          Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

          Originally posted by canes21
          Not to break up the trade talks, but I was just looking at our schedule & results and noticed that since the ASB we've literally not lost nor won 2 games in a row. It's been loss-win-loss-win on repeat.
          Yup. Jeff Fisher would be proud of this .500 team.

          BTW, in August we get two days off back-to-back on a Wednesday/Thursday. Can't remember ever seeing that before.

          Comment

          • LowerWolf
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jun 2006
            • 12270

            #110
            Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

            Arcia and Newcomb sent down to make room for Rodriguez and Soler. So Adrianza is our only reserve IF.

            Comment

            • LowerWolf
              Hall Of Fame
              • Jun 2006
              • 12270

              #111
              Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

              I think I might have been wrong on the Soler trade. I still hate the Smyly signing, even though he has pitched well.

              Comment

              • KSUowls
                All Star
                • Jul 2009
                • 5893

                #112
                Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                Small sample size but yeah he has been raking.

                I'd still rather see pache out there getting major league at bats that help us next year when this team is hopefully playing for more than a playoff participation trophy though.

                Which is exactly what AA seems to be going for based on a recent interview that he did. He basically said that they were buyers at the deadline because the east was still very winnable

                Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app

                Comment

                • canes21
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 22931

                  #113
                  Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                  I normally hate on AA, but I get where he is coming from. I'm not a GM and these moves aren't possibly going to lead to me losing my job, but I'm all in on the idea of trying to win this elite division even if the odds are low of winning more than 1 series.

                  If he wanted to sell of some big prospects to try and make a playoff spot, I'd be singing a different tune, but given what little was given up, I support going for that playoff participation trophy.

                  Maybe I'm naive with regards to how it may slow the progress of guys like Pache, but I'd rather watch this team at least attempt to win the division than watch Pache and others come up and struggle as they get used to the MLB level of play.

                  It should be noted that I also think that you can get those guys ready for the MLB while keeping them down and I don't believe simply giving them MLB game experience is going to make them take the next step. I think if a guy has it, then he has it and it will click when he is ready whether he be in the MLB or minors.

                  Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
                  “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                  ― Plato

                  Comment

                  • LowerWolf
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 12270

                    #114
                    Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                    We've always said the playoffs are a crapshoot and once you get in, anything can happen. From that standpoint, it makes sense to try to win the division.

                    To be clear, I don't think this team advances if it makes the postseason. But like Canes, I'm OK with trying to get there as long as we didn't sell off any important pieces of the future.

                    Comment

                    • KSUowls
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2009
                      • 5893

                      #115
                      Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                      I know that it's a popular saying that the playoffs are a crapshoot or "anything can happen once you get there", but it is an idiom based more in idealism than reality. Looking back at the last 3 decades of world series participants, the only real outlier is the 2007 Rockies who went on that ridiculous run before getting swept in the WS. Even the 2015 Royals had an elite bullpen to fall back on top of being 'good' in all other facets of the game.

                      We all know that this Braves team has too many injuries to significant players to be elite at anything. The offense does rank #9 in R/g, but it also had Acuna for 3 months and some inexplicable individual game performances inflating both that number as well as the +/- run differential. Jorge Soler's 9 game run in Atlanta is obviously not sustainable, and it's not like any of the other additions are great either. We are playing outfield roulette across all 3 outfield positions with 4 guys who probably wouldn't be starters on any other legitimate team. In fact, aside from filling the 1 remaining spot, they wouldn't be starters on this team if Acuna and Ozuna weren't out.

                      The starting rotation has been pretty good overall. It isn't really dominant. It doesn't have a great or even particularly good bullpen to fall back on either.

                      Everyone obviously knows the shortcomings of this team, but my point is that teams with this many holes and lack of strengths aren't world series contenders. For the most part they aren't even LCS contenders.

                      I will never be a fan of the pursuit of mediocrity. I don't think anyone else here is either, but that is exactly what it is when we are sacrificing future assets/development for a chance to win a terrible division just to sneak into the playoffs.

                      It's what the Joe Johnson/Al Horford led Hawks did every year when they were happy to make the playoffs even though they had 0 shot at ever competing and doing so killed their chances to actually get good with the lottery. Watching UGA keep Mark Richt for 15 years because he was just good enough was infuriating, even though any actual analysis of the situation would have told you at least 6 years earlier that things were never going to get better under him. It's why I was a a fan of the Braves rebuilding a few years ago. They probably could have pushed for another playoff run, maybe even 2, but the team wasn't good enough to really win and the finances were such that if they did push things a little further then we would have seen an even more drawn out rebuild. Other than gate revenue for the owners, there is no benefit to this team in having Drew Smyly pitch in August/September or Heredia start another game center field.

                      Comment

                      • LowerWolf
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Jun 2006
                        • 12270

                        #116
                        Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                        Don't forget the 2006 Cardinals!

                        I don't really consider it settling for mediocrity. Circumstances have sunk this season. A healthy team is still a legit WS contender.

                        If we traded legit prospects to make a run at the playoffs, I'd be upset. But I don't think next year's team will miss Bryse Wilson or Alex Jackson too much.

                        Comment

                        • KSUowls
                          All Star
                          • Jul 2009
                          • 5893

                          #117
                          Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                          Originally posted by LowerWolf
                          Don't forget the 2006 Cardinals!
                          I forgot about them. Having Albert Pujols not to mention Molina, Scott Rolen and Chris Carpenter certainly didn't hurt, but you're right that team also wasn't elite. I'd feel a lot better about Atlanta's chances though if, like it did in 2006, the number of NL teams with 89 or more wins equaled just 1. Actually this also was partially why Colorado was able to go on the run that they did the following year. The lack of great teams in the NL (no team had more than 90 wins in 2007) meant that you didn't have to be great to make it through 2 playoff series. I don't think that anyone can argue against the NL having multiple great teams this year though.

                          I don't really consider it settling for mediocrity. Circumstances have sunk this season. A healthy team is still a legit WS contender.

                          If we traded legit prospects to make a run at the playoffs, I'd be upset. But I don't think next year's team will miss Bryse Wilson or Alex Jackson too much
                          I agree, and that is the point. This team isn't healthy, it isn't going to be this year, and therefore it is not a WS contender in 2021. I wouldn't call that settling. It's just accepting reality. Giving playing time to veterans who won't be here next year instead of using this time to develop or at least evaluate the young prospects is actively pursuing mediocrity though. Because now, not only are these guys missing out on 2 months of major league development, but the front office is losing 2 months worth of real games to evaluate who is going to be on the 26 man roster next year.

                          Tom Glavine and John Smoltz both often cite how important it was as young pitchers to just be able to go out and pitch every 5th day even though it meant losing 17 games in 1 season in Glavine's case. All of us have made that same point multiple times over the last year or two here. Smoltz and Glavine were able to do that because the Braves sucked those years, and so those teams could afford to have a pitcher learn on the job and lose 17 games.. That is something that those 80's Braves teams have not had in common with the Atlanta teams of the last few years who were chasing pennants, but it does share at least some commonality with the 2021 version.

                          edit -
                          Our rotation as of today is Fried, Morton, Smyly, Touki and Muller. Anderson and Ynoa have already started their rehab assignments, and I don't think there is any chances that Anderson is going to the Pen. So, Ynoa, Muller, and Touki....at least two of these guys is going to be pitching in the bullpen down the stretch instead of getting starter experience.
                          Last edited by KSUowls; 08-13-2021, 07:46 PM.

                          Comment

                          • LowerWolf
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Jun 2006
                            • 12270

                            #118
                            Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                            I don't think Muller will be back up this season, barring injury. I would rather see Touki/Ynoa instead of Smyly. I'm not convinced Anderson is really healthy, but we'll see.

                            The difference between 2014 and now is the core of that team consisted of pending FAs. We knew we were losing Heyward and Upton and had to start over. The core of this team is intact. Acuna and Albies aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I'll be shocked if Freddie isn't extended shortly after the season.

                            Rodriguez, Duvall and Pederson could all be back next year. We may lose Soler and Rosario, but we gave up a relief pitcher none of us had heard of before and will likely never hear of again, and the corpse of Pablo Sandoval for them. I'm OK with that.

                            Comment

                            • LowerWolf
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 12270

                              #119
                              Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                              One thing I think we can all agree on: There’s no reason for Josh Tomlin to still be on this team.

                              Comment

                              • KSUowls
                                All Star
                                • Jul 2009
                                • 5893

                                #120
                                Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                                That and for Rodriguez to pitch any inning that isn't the 9th

                                Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app

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