2021 Atlanta Braves

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  • KSUowls
    All Star
    • Jul 2009
    • 5893

    #91
    Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

    I'd rather have Almonte, if for no other reason then it lands us a little higher pick in the draft next year.

    This team was at best a fringe playoff team with MVP candidate Acuna. Without him, it doesn't really matter who they add, this season is lost. Even if we don't want to see see Amonte, there are legitimate prospect options that are available to the outfield. Maybe it's still too early for Waters, but Pache could get some more time here or maybe give Carmago another look.

    Fortunately we didn't give up much, but Atlanta should be selling at this point.

    Comment

    • LowerWolf
      Hall Of Fame
      • Jun 2006
      • 12270

      #92
      Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

      I'm not against selling. I don't see this team making the playoffs, let alone doing something if they do somehow get there. But AA isn't going to raise the flag just yet. So I like getting a guy who can potentially help without giving up much in return. And Pederson has a mutual option for next year, so he could be more than a three-month rental.

      I don't know if switching to LF would throw Riley off at the plate, but I'd like to see him in LF with Camargo back at 3B every day. Camargo has been pretty good when he plays every day. Not so much when he doesn't.

      And if we do sell and wind up trading Morton/Smyly, I want to see Wright, Wilson, Newk and Touki get extended looks as starters. We need to know once and for all if they're part of the plan for 2022 or not. Touki is apparently starting Tuesday.

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      • KSUowls
        All Star
        • Jul 2009
        • 5893

        #93
        Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

        On June 9th, ~60 games into the season Freddie was hitting .224. 6 weeks later he's at .291.

        Pretty incredible turn around. He was hitting much better early in the season than the stat line was showing. He's finally finding some holes though, and a 70 point increase at this point in the season is impressive.


        In breaking news, this lineup is atrocious. We're starting 5 guys in the lineup who should either be platoon guys, backups, or AAAA guys. I hope Pache, Contreras, Waters, and anyone else at Gwinnett get a call up soon. There is literally no reason to watch this team right now outside of Muller and Touki starts. The team isn't good and it's not interesting either.

        Comment

        • Sportsforever
          NL MVP
          • Mar 2005
          • 20368

          #94
          Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

          Ender DFA'd; hard to believe he's been here 7 seasons now, but he has fallen off big time. I appreciate the effort and skill he brought during those lean years, but he can't hit anymore and his fielding isn't what it was. I don't see him getting picked up by another team (he's owed ~$9M this year) and the Braves most certainly will not be picking up his option next year.

          In hindsight, Braves should have traded him to the Cubs back in 2015 when Chicago offered Baez.
          "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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          • KSUowls
            All Star
            • Jul 2009
            • 5893

            #95
            Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

            It really is incredible how he fell off, at such a young age too. It wouldn't have been all that surprising if it happened when he was 32. He just turned 30 last October though, and this has been going on for a while. His YoY average drooped 19 points at age 28, and that was after it dropped 30 points from his career average at age 27 the year prior. He was never a great hitter, but that was still quite the fall off.

            Comment

            • KSUowls
              All Star
              • Jul 2009
              • 5893

              #96
              Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

              There was an article on Tomahawktake yesterday with delusions of grandeur.

              It was before the game against Philly resulted in another L, but it was trying to make the case that Atlanta should be buyers at the trade deadline. It talked about how the team played within 1 run of one of the best teams in the AL coming out of the break, and how they split 2 games against the really talented Padres, and to that point had taken 2 out of 3 against Philly. Somehow this results proved that Atlanta "belonged" with the big boys despite an offense plagued by injuries and a bullpen that has blown numerous games. Somehow the bullpen is better than the numbers have shown 4 months into the season.

              The only reason that I bring this up, is that I really hope that AA doesn't suffer from the same delusions. He's obviously waiting until the last possible moment to make any trades, which concerns me. The Braves have 5 with the Mets this week, and so they could theoretically be tied for 1st in the East by Friday. In the unlikely event that does take place, what does that accomplish? Are we going to sell off some prospects to get some short term gains to hopefully win the East and then go play the $200 million California teams and whoever comes out of the Central without Acuna, Ozuna, Soroka and then hoping that D'arnaeud hasn't lost anything when it comes back from his injury? Play with an outfield whose best player is probably Joc Pederson?

              If he can swing some prospects to get someone who will be here for more than just the next few months then great, but all of the 1 year rentals with trade value should be moved for whatever we can get for them regardless of what happens over the next 4 days.

              Comment

              • Sportsforever
                NL MVP
                • Mar 2005
                • 20368

                #97
                Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                Hilarious that AA and company tried to acquire Duvall from the Marlins (Miami said no thank you) after they let him walk this offseason.

                When you look at the moves AA made and how things have turned out, it's hard to pick a team that had a worse offseason than we did. Everything he has done has backfired...
                "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                Comment

                • KSUowls
                  All Star
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 5893

                  #98
                  Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                  From the Marlins angle, there was one report that even said the Marlins do not want to make any trades with Atlanta. Bad move from a business standpoint, but also it could affect them on field. If true, then it shows some clear grievances with Atlanta that could/should lead to more instant ejections when they hit our players.

                  I'm less and less confident each day that AA will do the smart thing and try to get some help for 2022/2023 with the pieces currently on the roster before the trade deadline. In fact, the reports are that he's looking to add. I'm sure it will be a mediocre piece or two in order to play lip service to the division, but if that happens then anything short of a world series appearance should result in his immediate firing. If you can get a bucket of baseball for Drew Smyly then you do it. Charlie Morton? The only benefit that he still offers is that he's a source of knowledge for the young pitchers, which does have value. He's also taking up a rotation spot that though should go to Touki, Muller, Wilson, Wright, and Ynoa when he gets back. For the first time in a few years the team has an opportunity to send every one of their young arms out there every 5th day and see what they can do over the course of 2 months instead of constantly shuffling them up and down or to the bullpen.


                  Also, this has to be one of the weirdest offenses in the history of baseball. They have scored 10+ runs, 7 times I think the number was.

                  They have done this while:

                  Freeman was hitting .220 for most of the season
                  d'Arnaud has been out for most of the season.
                  Acuna had missed a handful of games before missing the 3 weeks.
                  Ozuna has been out of the lineup for half the season and he was only hitting .220 before that.
                  Dansby has spent most of the year under with an OBP under .300

                  On top of the above; Guillermo Heredia, Ehire Adrianza, kevan smith and Abraham Almonte have combined for 650 play appearances through July 27th.
                  Last edited by KSUowls; 07-28-2021, 06:13 PM.

                  Comment

                  • LowerWolf
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 12270

                    #99
                    Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                    Demeritte and Camargo are raking at Gwinnett. Good thing Atlanta doesn't need them.

                    Comment

                    • canes21
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 22931

                      #100
                      Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                      This division is terrible. I knew the Mets wouldn't ever pull away. They're an overrated team with 2.5 good pitchers and a bad offense. The fact that this awful Braves team can stumble into a division championship tells you how bad the division is.
                      “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                      ― Plato

                      Comment

                      • KSUowls
                        All Star
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 5893

                        #101
                        Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                        I'm not sure if it's been posted somewhere or not but I saw on Reddit a news break that prosecutors have dropped felony charges against Ozuna after seeing body cam footage...I still don't know what that means for his future in a baseball uniform, but I would imagine that it guarantees that Atlanta will be paying his entire contract.

                        Which further solidifies this teams need to either dump Morton and Smyly to have a 2 month try out for any young and cheap arms that we have, or move some of those arms to bring in someone to lock down a roster spot for the next 2-3 years.

                        Not a peep on the rumor front. AA has always managed to keep things quiet until a deal is done, but time is running out.



                        Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app

                        Comment

                        • Sportsforever
                          NL MVP
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 20368

                          #102
                          Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                          Originally posted by KSUowls
                          I'm not sure if it's been posted somewhere or not but I saw on Reddit a news break that prosecutors have dropped felony charges against Ozuna after seeing body cam footage...I still don't know what that means for his future in a baseball uniform, but I would imagine that it guarantees that Atlanta will be paying his entire contract.

                          Which further solidifies this teams need to either dump Morton and Smyly to have a 2 month try out for any young and cheap arms that we have, or move some of those arms to bring in someone to lock down a roster spot for the next 2-3 years.

                          Not a peep on the rumor front. AA has always managed to keep things quiet until a deal is done, but time is running out.



                          Sent from my S10 using Operation Sports mobile app
                          Interesting; is there actually a chance that he plays for us again? I think the Ozuna's relationship is clearly complicated and I don't know all the details, but she was arrested last year for the same thing. It's clearly volatile on both sides; I don't know if MLB would take that negative PR on by letting him play. I'm not even sure how I feel about it without knowing the details...not having his bat has been a big problem (he was just starting to hit when he got hurt).
                          "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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                          • Sportsforever
                            NL MVP
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 20368

                            #103
                            Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                            Well...that was the most AA trade deadline ever. Rosario and Duvall? Either you're in or you're out...this is "we aren't either".
                            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                            Comment

                            • KSUowls
                              All Star
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 5893

                              #104
                              Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                              #FireAA

                              I realize this front office has to play under different rules than the Dodgers, but today's moves/lackthereof make no sense at all.

                              Mets are leading the division and add Baez.

                              Braves are 4 back with 59 to go, have not won more than 3 in a row at any point this season, and barring wins tonight & tomorrow then they will go all of April-July without waking up over .500 once. We're without our best player, some analysis suggested that the bullpen has been responsible for over 20 losses, and the most bullish prediction models give this team around a 20% chance of winning the division at this point.

                              And what does AA do? He adds a couple of 4th outfielders. A starting outfield featuring some combination of Duvall, Rosario, Joc Pederson and Heredia, and no moves to bolster the bullpen that has been among the worst in baseball is not the combination needed to go 35-24 down the stretch (which is what is needed assuming NYM goes .500).

                              So, clearly the moves today weren't made with the intention of winning in 2021.

                              Charlie Morton, Drew Smyly and Chris Martin are still on this team with expiring contracts at the end of the year.

                              Outside of Fried and Anderson (who should be back soon), and excluding both Mike Soroka and Tucker Davidson you have 5 healthy young arms in the mid 20s who are competing for 1 remaining rotation spot, and another in Ynoa who is slated to be back in August.

                              Today's moves don't help us win the division this year, they don't help us compete in future years via controllable assets, and they don't open up spots in the rotation for any of the 6 arms in their mid 20s (outside of Fried & Anderson) for a 2 month try-out every 5th day. Absolutely nothing was accomplished today, and decision is going to have to be made on these guys really soon. AA just cost himself a great opportunity to evaluate them too.

                              Kyle Wright - 26 in October
                              Touki Toussaint - 25
                              Jasseel De La Cruz - 24
                              Kyle Muller - 24 in October
                              Bryse Wilson - 24 in December
                              Huascar Ynoa - 23



                              That list doesn't even include Tucker Davidson who should also be in the mix in 2022

                              On top of that, the field is going to get even more crowded in 2022 as behind them you have these guys in AA who feature varying levels of promise.
                              Freddy Tranok - 22
                              Bryce Elder - 22
                              Jared Schuster - 22


                              edit - lmao let me correct the above. Braves add 3 4th outfielders. The great Jorge Soler and his .192 batting average had not been announced when I started this post.

                              edit 2 - Richard Rodriguez also added. I was actually hoping that we would add him. He isn't dominant, but he has 2 more years of control after this one, and he doesn't walk people. Giving up Bryse Wilson isn't a huge loss to me as I was never a fan of his, but even for people who liked his upside it still seems worthwhile.

                              How does that Meatloaf song go? 1 out of 5 trades ain't bad?
                              Last edited by KSUowls; 07-30-2021, 03:40 PM.

                              Comment

                              • LowerWolf
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jun 2006
                                • 12270

                                #105
                                Re: 2021 Atlanta Braves

                                Glad we addressed the bullpen. And Rodriguez has a few years of team control. I'm totally fine with giving up Bryse for him.

                                I know we needed to add OFs, but a lot of the moves don't make sense. Who are we getting rid of to make room? Almonte and Heredia? Heredia is the only real CF on the roster, so who plays CF if he's DFA'd? Does Soler give us anything that Demeritte couldn't have?

                                At least we didn't give up anything of consequence. Like I put in the main thread, I'd have been fine with trading Morton/Smyly and going with some combination of Wright/Touki/Newk in the rotation, along with Fried/Muller/Anderson (if healthy) and Ynoa.

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