Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

[WTF]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Oh, and by no means is the above "proof" of scripting throughout an entire game. Its a culmination of little things like this that exist, which add up to an unenjoyable experience for me.

There are games like the Kings/Nuggets game in MyGM that I posted extensively about earlier, that I can say IN MY EXPERIENCE that it was scripted. playing from halftime for 4-5 times, with the same outcome, cheesing madness.

I just had another "experience" that drives me nuts. 3 of my defenders down low, shot jacked up from 3... NOBODY near my 3 guys, Pachulia should have had an easy rebound, but he doesn't jump, he doesn't do anything, rebound is grabbed by an offensive player who leaps between my 3 guys for a rebound.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/K7yN2xr2itQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just piddly little stuff that shouldn't be happening.

Speaking of things that shouldn't be happening:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8MkPwgvkOPM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's one of the most frustrating issues. Giannis blocks Lin, Wolters should be there to pick it up as Lin is in a stumbling/contact animation, yet Wolters arms stop just short of grabbing the ball and Lin miraculously is able to recover and grab it for the foul and score. Just makes no sense period.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

I'm not going to argue because it's not that big of a deal. I was asked to play it again after the patches to see my thoughts. One of the first plays of the game an ignorant sequence plays out that just seriously doesn't make any sense.

On the first page of the thread I posted that I played the same 2nd half of the game 4-5 times, with the same outcome. Bumped it down to rookie, and same ignorant outcome. It's not just me, there are a LOT of PM's in my inbox that guys mentioned the same stuff. There are games that are good, competitive and great experiences. But there are games that are just flat out pitiful. It's not that I'm not playing well, but the sliding, morphing, glitching presents itself in such a manner that you lose all ability to enjoy the game.

I can handle losing just fine. I can handle blowing a team out just fine. I love close contested games that feel like a good experience. I don't enjoy passing the ball to a guy, the ball warping into a "fumbling" animation, the opposing PG running up and taking the ball in stride off to the races. Your defender running back alongside the PG, and all of the sudden a forcefield pushes you back away for the computer to continue it's highlight reel play.

In the play I'm uploading, Wolters is coming around off of a curl, Knight underhands the ball to him. The ball SHOULD of been caught around the chest, however the ball warps down to his shins inexplicably, he goes into a fumble the ball animation, and Patrick Beverly is in full stride dribbling down the floor with it next thing you know. Ilyasova is gaining ground from behind, when a Beverly forcefield bumps him back into an electric shock type of animation. It just makes ZERO sense.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/egrJsSl_1co" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/a3hIrm6Bh7I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I wish this weren't the case, but I'm seeing it more often than not. I'm going to try to find a slider set that tweaks this.

The game CAN be gorgeous. But this legacy stuff has to go away.

This looks like a hiccup in an animation where the balls was supposed to bounce off of the player's head and/or chest. Resulting in a bobbled reception of the pass.

The animation provided is UGLY and needs to be addressed by the Dev team.

FWIW, I don't experience any morphing of this variety but from what I gather this type of thing was introduced by a patch (my game is unpatched). Am I correct on that?

Sliding and morphing like that IS AN ISSUE. Evidence of ugliness and a divide between the coding and animations? Yes. Evidence of "cheese?" No. But you said as much in your post.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Oh, and by no means is the above "proof" of scripting throughout an entire game. Its a culmination of little things like this that exist, which add up to an unenjoyable experience for me.

There are games like the Kings/Nuggets game in MyGM that I posted extensively about earlier, that I can say IN MY EXPERIENCE that it was scripted. playing from halftime for 4-5 times, with the same outcome, cheesing madness.

I just had another "experience" that drives me nuts. 3 of my defenders down low, shot jacked up from 3... NOBODY near my 3 guys, Pachulia should have had an easy rebound, but he doesn't jump, he doesn't do anything, rebound is grabbed by an offensive player who leaps between my 3 guys for a rebound.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/K7yN2xr2itQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just piddly little stuff that shouldn't be happening.

Speaking of things that shouldn't be happening:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8MkPwgvkOPM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's one of the most frustrating issues. Giannis blocks Lin, Wolters should be there to pick it up as Lin is in a stumbling/contact animation, yet Wolters arms stop just short of grabbing the ball and Lin miraculously is able to recover and grab it for the foul and score. Just makes no sense period.

Block recovery and CPU offensive rebounds are problems with this game. These videos document the issues precisely and one can only hope Developement sees these and correct the problem going forward.

But, can one make a case this happens more or less due to in-game circumstance? That say, for example, these things happen more when the human is winning? More in the 4th? More during a losing streak?

Sure. That might be able to be proven. But it would need to be well tracked and documented and no one expects anyone to put that kind of time in.

That said, these videos are great examples of issues with the game but totally unrelated to comeback AI. So may I ask, and I may be wrong, how are these videos relevant to the topic at hand in their current state?

[WTF]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Block recovery and CPU offensive rebounds are problems with this game. These videos document the issues precisely and one can only hope Developement sees these and correct the problem going forward.

But, can one make a case this happens more or less due to in-game circumstance? That say, for example, these things happen more when the human is winning? More in the 4th? More during a losing streak?

Sure. That might be able to be proven. But it would need to be well tracked and documented and no one expects anyone to put that kind of time in.

That said, these videos are great examples of issues with the game but totally unrelated to comeback AI. So may I ask, and I may be wrong, how are these videos relevant to the topic at hand in their current state?

You're new to the series, and it's fine if you're enjoying the game. The thread is about CPU Cheese & Cheating. Your definition may differ from mine, or any of the other posters within this thread on what constitutes cheese and/or cheating.

The videos are relevant because it's blatant cheese, in my opinion, to get a block only to have the CPU defender recover the ball (after the defense just fails to grab it) and end up getting the score. It's a cheesy way to keep a game close. CPU need an offensive rebound to get an extra chance to score? Block out, bang down low, get a real offensive rebound. Instead, the game decides that your Center should stand flat footed and watch as the rebound goes over his head, between the grasps of two other defensive rebounders, and gives the ball to the offensive player who comes from out of nowhere.

If it's a legit offensive rebound, great. But the tactics that the CPU use to get these rebounds, or extra possessions grow old over a number of years.

Again, it's fine to have your opinion, just as I have mine. You aren't sitting in my living room, or probably any other living room to say what we are or are not seeing. Just be content with the fact that you are enjoying the game and aren't seeing things the same way we are.

If you don't see Wolters in the "bad pass" clip above firmly have control of the ball for a second, prior to Beverly deciding that he was going to begin dribbling up the floor on a fast break attempt, then I don't know. It's not a poor animation in my eyes. At the 5 second mark, he has it in his left hand. The game however has Beverly take it in a full dribble to start the fast break. It's a predetermined outcome. Again, this is how I see it.

I'm not convincing anyone of anything, just documenting what I see. For what it's worth, all of these videos were taken in the first quarter alone of the game. There were several more instances of the game pushing my defender WAY out of the play in order to get to the hoop, but unfortunately, the PS4 upload speeds are extremely slow, cutting my internet connection to a crawl.

The other videos I posted earlier in the thread, document my experience extremely well from my point of view.

Just be happy that you're happy with the game and the challenge it presents.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

You're new to the series, and it's fine if you're enjoying the game. The thread is about CPU Cheese & Cheating. Your definition may differ from mine, or any of the other posters within this thread on what constitutes cheese and/or cheating.

The videos are relevant because it's blatant cheese, in my opinion, to get a block only to have the CPU defender recover the ball (after the defense just fails to grab it) and end up getting the score. It's a cheesy way to keep a game close. CPU need an offensive rebound to get an extra chance to score? Block out, bang down low, get a real offensive rebound. Instead, the game decides that your Center should stand flat footed and watch as the rebound goes over his head, between the grasps of two other defensive rebounders, and gives the ball to the offensive player who comes from out of nowhere.

If it's a legit offensive rebound, great. But the tactics that the CPU use to get these rebounds, or extra possessions grow old over a number of years.

Again, it's fine to have your opinion, just as I have mine. You aren't sitting in my living room, or probably any other living room to say what we are or are not seeing. Just be content with the fact that you are enjoying the game and aren't seeing things the same way we are.

If you don't see Wolters in the "bad pass" clip above firmly have control of the ball for a second, prior to Beverly deciding that he was going to begin dribbling up the floor on a fast break attempt, then I don't know. It's not a poor animation in my eyes. At the 5 second mark, he has it in his left hand. The game however has Beverly take it in a full dribble to start the fast break. It's a predetermined outcome. Again, this is how I see it.

I'm not convincing anyone of anything, just documenting what I see. For what it's worth, all of these videos were taken in the first quarter alone of the game. There were several more instances of the game pushing my defender WAY out of the play in order to get to the hoop, but unfortunately, the PS4 upload speeds are extremely slow, cutting my internet connection to a crawl.

The other videos I posted earlier in the thread, document my experience extremely well from my point of view.

Just be happy that you're happy with the game and the challenge it presents.

But Gagnon writes a post about how new to the series he is and his cheese post gets a big old thumbs up from you? He's new and agrees and his opinion is ok. I'm new and disagrees, and I get this?

I'm done in this thread. No harm no foul. I appreciate the videos WTF. They show some excellent things the game can improve upon.

[WTF]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

But Gagnon writes a post about how new to the series he is and his cheese post gets a big old thumbs up from you? He's new and agrees and his opinion is ok. I'm new and disagrees, and I get this?

I'm done in this thread. No harm no foul. I appreciate the videos WTF. They show some excellent things the game can improve upon.

Gagnon happens to see the same things that we're seeing. If you see a post you like or agree with, then you "like" the post.

It's no disrespect to you or your opinion at all. Like I've reiterated numerous times, if you don't see it or aren't experiencing it, that's great. My post means no disrespect to you or any other member of the site, just clarifying and elaborating more on what I'm seeing and why I feel a certain way.

For the past (I can't remember how many) years, I would NEVER go into the Bugs & Glitches thread in the 2k forums, because I didn't want to see anything that could potentially taint my opinion of the game. It has/had it's downfalls and things that I didn't like, but it wasn't breaking the game enough for me.

I probably would have never came into a thread like this in years past, but I'm at my wits end with the game. I got the download code, have played 2 games, and am wanting to be done with it again already.

If you don't see these things, I'm being sincere, stay out of these threads I wouldn't want anyone else's issues with a game to ruin my personal experience. I'm legitimately happy that you're playing the game and enjoying it. I wish I could do the same because graphically, it is a gorgeous game.

For my personal gameplay tastes however, the game is beyond repair for this year, and I won't be buying a 2k game again until I can see that "my issues" are gone.

[Coach2K]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

I probably would have never came into a thread like this in years past, but I'm at my wits end with the game. I got the download code, have played 2 games, and am wanting to be done with it again already.

...

For my personal gameplay tastes however, the game is beyond repair for this year, and I won't be buying a 2k game again until I can see that "my issues" are gone.

Seems unfair to make a valid assessment of the game from having played just 2 games. I don't think that is really enough.

[WTF]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

www.Coach2K.com, re-read the thread my man. I've played many more than 2 games. I was given a Digital Download copy to try and "test" out for a 2nd time, seeing how my thoughts were after the patches and improvements. This is just 2 games after I have reacquired the game.

[Coach2K]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

On the first page of the thread I posted that I played the same 2nd half of the game 4-5 times, with the same outcome. Bumped it down to rookie, and same ignorant outcome.

I guess this is what caught my eye. I've never been challenged in rookie difficulty. Currently running a rookie level MyGM.

[WTF]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

I guess this is what caught my eye. I've never been challenged in rookie difficulty. Currently running a rookie level MyGM.

Nor had I. I picked a game back up at half time in my Kings GM against the Nuggets on Pro. Saw too much "junk" happening, got frustrated, closed app and picked the save back up at half time 3 more times. Finally bumped down to Rookie to "test" to see what would happen, thinking I should easily be able to circumvent the CPU from doing stuff... Needless to say I lost in the same manner as the other. Cheese and Cheating galore.

I start up the game today hoping that some of the stuff had been fixed, but to my dismay, first game back I saw the same things that were happening in that sequence of games.

[Coach2K]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Nor had I. I picked a game back up at half time in my Kings GM against the Nuggets on Pro. Saw too much "junk" happening, got frustrated, closed app and picked the save back up at half time 3 more times. Finally bumped down to Rookie to "test" to see what would happen, thinking I should easily be able to circumvent the CPU from doing stuff... Needless to say I lost in the same manner as the other. Cheese and Cheating galore.

I start up the game today hoping that some of the stuff had been fixed, but to my dismay, first game back I saw the same things that were happening in that sequence of games.

I'm sure it won't be received this way, but this is meant in a positive way. Basically what you need to do is spend a lot more time on rookie difficulty level then.

I say the above as a person who is doing exactly what he recommends and IS playing on rookie level and who also considers himself a hall of fame level player.

[WTF]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Coach2k, with all due respect. .. no. Just no. These issues are not a "lower the difficulty level. I win on pro. I win on all star. Normal games, rookie is much too easy. I lowered it to Rookie to see what the results of 1 particular game would yield.

I just stink at the game which is causing the cheesy game play.

If I was having trouble winning games, then possibly that would be a suggestion. I'm not having trouble winning, I'm having trouble enjoying with the WAY that the game stays competitive.

[Csquared]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

I'm sure it won't be received this way, but this is meant in a positive way. Basically what you need to do is spend a lot more time on rookie difficulty level then.

I say the above as a person who is doing exactly what he recommends and IS playing on rookie level and who also considers himself a hall of fame level player.

You wrote up a nice article about this as well.

[Coach2K]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Coach2k, with all due respect. .. no. Just no. These issues are not a "lower the difficulty level. I win on pro. I win on all star. Normal games, rookie is much too easy. I lowered it to Rookie to see what the results of 1 particular game would yield.

I just stink at the game which is causing the cheesy game play.

If I was having trouble winning games, then possibly that would be a suggestion. I'm not having trouble winning, I'm having trouble enjoying with the WAY that the game stays competitive.

It's often implied by others that "because I win" and "yeah I can win but it's just not enjoyable" that it's not me, it's the game

I can understand that.

The hardest part explaining what I try and explain is that there's how to win and then there's how to play.

People often feel that because they can win that they know how to play but they are not necessarily the same thing.

[Rdrunner]

Re: Next Gen CPU Cheese/Cheating Is Amazing!

Seems unfair to make a valid assessment of the game from having played just 2 games. I don't think that is really enough.

It is if you read all the negative stuff in the forums.