This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

[tcrews]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I'm in the 4th quarter right now against the celtics. I'm 7-16 with steph curry who is well rested. I'm running my offense through him and klay who is 2-11. I don't mind the FG% but what I do mind is now every open shot either of them take is a D- and has very little chance of going in.

How is that realistic at all whatsoever? And for all these people saying shot fatigue exists or they've experienced it firsthand etc. I played D3 ball (which is not anything to write home about, I know) and if you're in shape you don't lose your legs on a game by game basis. These are some of the best athletes in the world. At the end of the season. Second game of back to backs. That's when "shot fatigue" is prevalent. Not 28 minutes into one game. If I'm doing a quick game I shouldn't have to worry about not being able to use my best players by the 4th quarter because they took 15+ shots. I now have the option of either running my offense through bogut, iggy or lee. Which isn't a bad thing but I have to pretend like klay and steph aren't there Which is absurd.

How anyone can defend that is beyond me. Maybe an open 3 from steph going A+ to B+ but going straight from A to D because he crossed an imaginary threshold of shots the game says he can take before losing his legs? I never even let my guys play to the point a Gatorade cup shows up. I'm always on top of my substitutions. Yet wide open 3s are a D- cause he's taken 17 shots. Which amounts to slightly over 4 shots per quarter. Come on man.

[manu1433]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I agree with the concept, shooting 25+ times is a rare occurance for even the best players in the game. The most prolific scorers only put up about 20 per game.

I agree though, the penalty should be a swarming defense and smaller shot meter based on overall fatigue, not a set numerical threshold.

which means it is an average

as in sometimes they will shoot 30 times in a game....like Lebron did last night

a player shouldn't just start bricking jumpers if he is 20/24 and the games decides you should have some arbitrary fatigue on shot 25 that didn't exist 30 seconds before on shot 24

that's silly

[darkknightrises]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Make it a slider like was mentioned previously.

And it shouldn't be based on a guy's FGA solely. Why? Well what if a guy's role changes due to development as a player, injury, or trade?

If Kawhi Leonard, who doesn't take a ton of shots with the Spurs night in and night out, for some reason got moved to the Sixers, his shot attempts would go way up due to his role being changed.

Russell Westbrook, before he hurt his hand, was due to get more attempts when KD went down first. Now, Reggie Jackson will get alot of those shots that weren't available before.

Point is, it shouldn't be tied solely to past FGA's, otherwise you are limiting guys whose role changes REQUIRE them to be more assertive on offense in order to help their team win.

And yes, it should be transparent with a rating or a meter of some sort.

You make good points there. It should just be the more minutes you play the more tried you get and the more tired you get the more it is going to effect your shoots and your game has a whole because that is how it really works. I have played basketball for years and I am not in the best shap but if I go out side and just stand there and shot shoots I could shoot for a long long time before I would start to fell it. What makes you tried is running down the court playing d, jumping ,rebounding and running throw screens not just shooting the ball but trying to get in postion to get open so you can get a good shot.

[El_Poopador]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

NOTHING to do with how tired they get? lol ok.

They have these limits because they can't go on shooting the whole game. Because if they can just keep running around the whole game and going around screens and whatnot, without affecting their shooting percentages, coaches would just focus on using plays for them to get the ball and shoot 3's.

And remember, the NBA season is 82 games long. Fatigue is a real issue for everyone. That's why if you follow the NBA, a lot of times veterans teach rookies how to pace themselves for the 82 game stretch. Because if not, they'd be gassed out by all-star break.

No one is arguing that players don't get tired. The argument is having a separate fatigue that only affects shooting. If you're tired, you're tired. You're not going to be able to play stellar on-ball defense, but then five seconds later, you remember you took more shots than you're used to and not be able to shoot the ball, then go back to stellar defense on the other side again.

[Mrmagoo]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Lol this tread is the greatest pissin contest I've seen in awhile.... Mines bigger than yours...

Btw I think it should also just be tied into normal player fatigue, not after x amount of shots, fwiw.

[TheRealHST]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

"Would be interested to know," I*asked a few hours ago, "if 3-point shooting accuracy declines with long playing time."*

ESPN stats wizard Alok Pattani emailed shortly thereafter with the table you see on the right, based on the last five years, that certainly suggests the answer is "yes."*

In a nutshell: In their first 25 minutes on the court, NBA players shoot 3s consistently, in a tiny, and productive range from 35.6 to 36.8 percent.*

As they keep playing, that percentage drops.*

By the time we're talking about players who have logged 41-45 minutes their percentage is all the way down to a pedestrian 27.9 percent ... which is bad. That's down around the territory where you'd rather those guys just don't attempt those magically productive 3s.*

42 minutes into his night, your 39 percent shooter might not be a 39 percent shooter anymore. This matters if you're a coach drawing up a crunch-time play.*

Pattani cautions we don't yet know it's a clear story of fatigue: "3-point percentage does tend to decline once you get into the 30s and especially the 40s in playing time," he says. "This could be worse 3-point shooters taking the shots, tougher shots in late-game situations, etc. We can’t immediately say this is because players are tired so they can’t connect on the long shots as accurately. But you could control for more things like top shooters, distance (take out heaves), and time left in the game and get a clearer understanding."

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=53940&src=desktop

[gfdhgfhf]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

You don't hold your arm up and shoot for the whole 48 minutes.[img]

[Hotobu]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I agree with the concept, shooting 25+ times is a rare occurance for even the best players in the game. The most prolific scorers only put up about 20 per game.

I agree though, the penalty should be a swarming defense and smaller shot meter based on overall fatigue, not a set numerical threshold.

True, and this is also due to the fact that no one is going to want to play with someone who shoots that many times a game, and a coach wont stand for it, unless they shoot an ungodly % from the field.

As far as I can tell the general consensus is that shot fatigue is a real thing, but not to the extent, or the manner that the game represents it, and the fatigue is due to the person's overall fatigue not because they take x number of shots. As this is the first year for this I can kind of give them a pass because they're ironing the kinks out, but there are so many more ways to do a better job of accounting for the very real fact that guys get fatigued, and that affects their shots than the way it is now.

[RapboY]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

No one is arguing that players don't get tired. The argument is having a separate fatigue that only affects shooting. If you're tired, you're tired. You're not going to be able to play stellar on-ball defense, but then five seconds later, you remember you took more shots than you're used to and not be able to shoot the ball, then go back to stellar defense on the other side again.

I know, that was just a reply to Fedexpope's reply to me. If you read my previous post, you'd see my real point for the thread.

[RealistSpurFan]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

The problem (like someone already said) is that it doesn't seem to affect the CPU. Playing in mycareer and the Blazers baked my Spurs both games. They were both close until the 4th when it was apparent this shot fatigue had kicked in....yet I'm still being instructed by the coach to "shoot early and often".

Meanwhile, EVERYONE on the Blazers kept hitting at least 50%. 2K may be starting to outsmart itself and that is leading to poor balance to me at least.

[VDusen04]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

"Would be interested to know," I*asked a few hours ago, "if 3-point shooting accuracy declines with long playing time."*

ESPN stats wizard Alok Pattani emailed shortly thereafter with the table you see on the right, based on the last five years, that certainly suggests the answer is "yes."*

In a nutshell: In their first 25 minutes on the court, NBA players shoot 3s consistently, in a tiny, and productive range from 35.6 to 36.8 percent.*

As they keep playing, that percentage drops.*

By the time we're talking about players who have logged 41-45 minutes their percentage is all the way down to a pedestrian 27.9 percent ... which is bad. That's down around the territory where you'd rather those guys just don't attempt those magically productive 3s.*

42 minutes into his night, your 39 percent shooter might not be a 39 percent shooter anymore. This matters if you're a coach drawing up a crunch-time play.*

Pattani cautions we don't yet know it's a clear story of fatigue: "3-point percentage does tend to decline once you get into the 30s and especially the 40s in playing time," he says. "This could be worse 3-point shooters taking the shots, tougher shots in late-game situations, etc. We can’t immediately say this is because players are tired so they can’t connect on the long shots as accurately. But you could control for more things like top shooters, distance (take out heaves), and time left in the game and get a clearer understanding."


http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...40&src=desktop

Good post. I think the bold is one of the more important things to keep in mind about those results.

Percentages could surely drop as a game progresses, but there are likely many factors that result in that drop. General fatigue (i.e. not actual "shooting" fatigue, but broader - from overall exertion) could be one factor, so could the aforementioned heaves and increased defensive pressure.

As it stands, from what some people have described here, NBA 2K15 may begin punishing players once their shot attempts reach a certain number, whether that number is reached in the first quarter or the fourth. That does not seem to be an accurate representation of what happens on the hardwood in reality.

[Yeezus123]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

It's hard to be clutch when you have to score so much just to keep the team within 10, and then gas out at the end. I wish the shot fatigue would be separately in quarters? Or something, because after sitting on the bench and transitioning into different quarters, you should get a Fresh restart because otherwise it would be pointless to score in the first couple quarters. But if we're open, we should make the shot if we got the release right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Herman925]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Simply put, the biggest complain about this mechanics is how it doesn't 'recover' from time outs, half times and all other instances (such as not shooting for a while)

[Sundown]

This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Simply put, the biggest complain about this mechanics is how it doesn't 'recover' from time outs, half times and all other instances (such as not shooting for a while)

It also renders stars completely useless in multiple OTs if you've been shooting at a high rate.

Meanwhile the CPU is unaffected and hits multiple contested long range buzzer beaters on shots approaching 40.

[Coach2K]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

It also renders stars completely useless in multiple OTs if you've been shooting at a high rate.

Meanwhile the CPU is unaffected and hits multiple contested long range buzzer beaters on shots approaching 40.

I think it's going to depend on a lot of factors.

Here's an overtime box score from a game I watched last night between two of my friends.

Settings 12 minutes quarters, hof, simulation sliders. Game went to one overtime.

Davis was definitely tired but while he put up 22 shots that's about his average and he managed 43 points.

The real surprise in this game was seven points from Ryan Anderson in overtime who is a volume shooter and had 20 attempts. He averages 16.5 shots a game but only averages 4 from three per game and he went 6-12 out there.

It's probably going to come down to knowing your personnel. The weaker the players, and the fewer badges the harder it is going to be to pull off probably.

I think you'll have an easier time with stars.

This was a user vs user game. So CPU might be different.