Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Rudy said it best.

I'm just going to assume you're willfully ignoring context because your upset about the subject at hand and I'll move on...so the focus on the thread can go back on defense....but just for anyone looking through this thread....Czar knows about the issue, and no, his response wasn't that tweet. I'll say one thing, if I was him and wanted to eventually chime in here...I sure wouldn't now, lol







Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I think Czar has thicker skin than you give him credit for. I highly doubt one angry OSer will scare him away from here. If he can handle Twitter responses, he can handle me having my jimmies rustled once in a while


Back on topic of this post, can everyone give this a try and get back to me: Get into a game, then Pause > Gameplan > Coaching Sliders > Help Defense - 100. Then switch to the CPU team and do the same thing. Go back to your team and play the game.

Let me know if that helps at least getting the defense to pay attention and care about helping defend the rim. It won't help the lack of actual shot-contest animations when the defender under the rim doesn't want to try, but it seems like this has at least made the defense rotate and get into realistic positions to help defend.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Please patch 4. Do your thing.

[goma76]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Please patch 4. Do your thing.

Patch 4 drops in the next 48hrs

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It’s out on PS5. Here is my post in it from the impressions thread. It’s improved but not perfect.

After a quick half I’m going to say PNR defence is improved. It’s not perfect and people may not be happy. It appears the cpu does a better job on the ball handler. The on ball defender seems smarter to me. They try to avoid the screen and go under more. The big defender still seems kind of dumb and doesn’t defend the basket quite well enough. Can be left flat footed and a spectator still. The roll man can be abused a bit imo. However I have the hands slider jacked up and they do get their hands on the roll pass to block it. Lastly it appears the help defenders outside of the 2 man game will help more. They cheat down and get their hands on the balls which also opens up the drive and kick game.

Have I read too much into playing 20 minutes lol? I don’t know. Here are a few clips. I switched to Portland second half.

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338433152465899524?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338433831234379777?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338435284816580611?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338438565303357443?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338440465696370688?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338441073996271617?s=21

[BaselineBakes]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It’s out on PS5. Here is my post in it from the impressions thread. It’s improved but not perfect.

After a quick half I’m going to say PNR defence is improved. It’s not perfect and people may not be happy. It appears the cpu does a better job on the ball handler. The on ball defender seems smarter to me. They try to avoid the screen and go under more. The big defender still seems kind of dumb and doesn’t defend the basket quite well enough. Can be left flat footed and a spectator still. The roll man can be abused a bit imo. However I have the hands slider jacked up and they do get their hands on the roll pass to block it. Lastly it appears the help defenders outside of the 2 man game will help more. They cheat down and get their hands on the balls which also opens up the drive and kick game.

Have I read too much into playing 20 minutes lol? I don’t know. Here are a few clips. I switched to Portland second half.

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338433152465899524?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338433831234379777?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338435284816580611?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338438565303357443?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338440465696370688?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status...996271617?s=21

Appreciate the clips. It looks like there’s some variety there, which is what we should be striving for. It’s a hard thing to replicate considering there’s so many different ways to cover the PnR, but as long as the success of running a well spaced and timed pick and roll remains while also taking out the mind numbingly dumb ways the CPU covered it pre-patch, I’ll be happy.

Excited to hop on later today and check it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It’s out on PS5. Here is my post in it from the impressions thread. It’s improved but not perfect.

After a quick half I’m going to say PNR defence is improved. It’s not perfect and people may not be happy. It appears the cpu does a better job on the ball handler. The on ball defender seems smarter to me. They try to avoid the screen and go under more. The big defender still seems kind of dumb and doesn’t defend the basket quite well enough. Can be left flat footed and a spectator still. The roll man can be abused a bit imo. However I have the hands slider jacked up and they do get their hands on the roll pass to block it. Lastly it appears the help defenders outside of the 2 man game will help more. They cheat down and get their hands on the balls which also opens up the drive and kick game.

Have I read too much into playing 20 minutes lol? I don’t know. Here are a few clips. I switched to Portland second half.

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338433152465899524?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338433831234379777?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338435284816580611?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338438565303357443?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status/1338440465696370688?s=21

https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status...996271617?s=21

Wow, seeing a corner defender actually moving from his spot is like a miracle to me! Like someone telling me 2020 never happened!



This cant be just a 20-minute-gameplay coincidence!

[alabamarob]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Its amazing that there are defensive settings in the game that dont work. Things like pre rotate and leave them are essential to realistic defense. Played a quarter and they were not touched during the patch. Anyone noticing something different?

[Quentin32]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Transition D is still can’t guard turbo smh

[ChaseB]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Its amazing that there are defensive settings in the game that dont work. Things like pre rotate and leave them are essential to realistic defense. Played a quarter and they were not touched during the patch. Anyone noticing something different?

The notes say they changed the settings so they would stick, but are you saying it doesn't matter because they just don't work?

[Antonioshellz]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I've noticed it with certain freelances. In the 4 out 1 in, when the center is at the high post, your center will not leave the opposing center.

The notes say they changed the settings so they would stick, but are you saying it doesn't matter because they just don't work?

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Transition D is still can’t guard turbo smh

What bothers u the most with transition D?


If its defenders being unable to catch offensive players, I suggest raising the minimal without ball speed towards the maximal value until you achieve what you want.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Posted in the Next-Gen Impressions thread. Figured it belonged here as well:


The patch didn't really do much if anything to help PnR/help defense. So here's the fix until they improve it:

Pause > Gameplan > Coach Sliders > Help Defense - 100
This will make the defense rotate and help when needed.
*Unfortunately you'll have to do this for both teams at the start of every new Play Now game, except when selecting "Rematch" at any point after you've already made the change.*


Also make sure to tweak these gameplay sliders:

Defense
Drive Contact Shot Frequency - 100
Inside Contact Shot Frequency - 100

• These two sliders will make the game trigger contact animations when attempting a layup/shot near the basket, making the help defense actually matter instead of being ignored.

Help Defense Strength - 100
This is the big one. This is the setting that fixes the hedge defender and stops him from standing in place. With this setting at 100 the hedge defender will either drop into the paint or aggressively defend the ball off the dribble after a successful screen/pick. At any setting lower than 100, you will increasingly see him just stand and watch the play unfold.

Attributes
Acceleration - 35
Strength - Personal Preference

• Decrease to make screens/picks less affective, allowing the on-ball defender to brush past the screen faster. Increase to make screens/picks more affective, triggering more brick-wall animations during the screen.

Hands - 75 or Higher

• More deflected passes, making it more dangerous to pass into the paint or cross-court.

Dunking Ability - 35 (USER only)

• Triggers fewer dunk animations when defenders are nearby. Especially important when using a team with athletic forwards like Lebron, Giannis, etc. so that you won't constantly get bailed out by OP dunk animations against good defense.

Defensive Awareness - 75 or Higher

• Improves the defenses ability to know when help is needed, triggering earlier rotations when attacking the basket.

Lateral Quickness - 75 or Higher

• Increases lateral movement speed on defense, making it easier to cut off the lane to the basket.

Tendencies
Play Passing Lanes - 100

• Harder to abuse the roll man as nearby defenders will pay attention to the passing lane. Also seems to make the on-ball defender more willing to switch and cover the roll man instead of always abandoning him.

Go for On-Ball Steals - 100

• Makes the defense come alive and punish you for being careless or overly aggressive.

Contest Shots - 100

• Makes the defense prioritize protecting the rim, and triggers more contest attempts when a defender is nearby. Basically, if a defender rotates to help they'll actually try to contest a shot instead of standing there to watch.

Fouls
Charging Foul Frequency - 100/60

• Triggers more Charging calls against the USER, making it harder to get to the rim via sprint-abuse.

Shooting Foul Frequency - 100/60

• Fewer fouls called against the CPU defense, and more fouls called against the USER defense. If you still feel like the USER gets too many free trips to the line, decrease the CPU value by increments of 5 until satisfied.

Movement
Speed with Ball (Max rating) - 55 *Currently broken and seemingly has no effect*
Speed with Ball (Min rating) - 40
Acceleration with Ball (Max rating) - 55
Acceleration with Ball (Min rating) - 40
Speed without Ball (Max rating) - 75
Speed without Ball (Min rating) - 55
Acceleration without Ball (Max rating) - 75
Acceleration without Ball (Min rating) - 55

• Removes the slow-motion movement of unathletic bigs, while still making athletic players stand out. Slightly hampers the user's ability to sprint-abuse their way to the basket, though a recent tuner by 2K broke the functionality of the "Speed with Ball (Max)" slider so there's no longer a way to slow down the top-speed of players with the ball via sliders. Today's patch did not fix this. Athletic forwards are too fast with ball and have very little weight to their movement.

Yea, a lot of information here but I've been working on this crap for too many hours

TL/DR: Help Defense in the Coach Sliders will improve how quickly and how often the defense rotates to help protect the rim. Help Defense Strength in the gameplay sliders controls the ability and frequency of the hedge defender actually playing defense instead of standing still and watching the play. Setting both of these to 100 will vastly improve your gameplay. You can then tweak the game from there by utilizing all of the other sliders at your disposal.

I didn't even touch on the Layup/Jump Shot Defense Strength sliders, but I wrote a whole post about those before if people want see how deep this rabbit hole goes lol

[sperlz_99]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Czar just had a q and a on YouTube and regarding the main issue in this thread, he said it's a pace issue with certain players.

Based on that im Not sure if he means this will be fixed as it seems like an imbalance in the game with quick players in offense and slow players in defense. I guess the only real way to fix this would be to edit a roster and reduce the speed of all players for a more balanced game. Or perhaps do as eccentric meat advised and change all the sliders. Although that is something I tried and still could get the same results.

He also said pick and roll is a work in progress.

[alabamarob]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

The notes say they changed the settings so they would stick, but are you saying it doesn't matter because they just don't work?

They dont work.

You set pre rotate and no one will pre rotate.

You set a person to leave them, and he will hug his man and not leave him.

Basically the ai will not do follow the assignments you give them in the defensive settings.

Been that way the entire time on next gen, and after the first patch on last gen

[TheEmperor2001]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

They dont work.

You set pre rotate and no one will pre rotate.

You set a person to leave them, and he will hug his man and not leave him.

Basically the ai will not do follow the assignments you give them in the defensive settings.

Been that way the entire time on next gen, and after the first patch on last gen

Really? I can't speak for next gen, but on last gen (Xbox One for me) my defensive settings work exactly how I set them. Now, I don't use pre rotate, but I use most of the other defensive settings and they work perfectly.