2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

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  • loso_34
    MVP
    • Jul 2010
    • 1346

    #211
    Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

    Originally posted by Acedeck
    This entire debate can be summarized as this:

    Competitive players want to be rewarded for their good timing, regardless of what it does to the "sim" nature of the game. They are the cream, so naturally they want 2k to allow the cream to rise to the top.

    Alternatively, there are sim players who want the game to be more realistic, which means tweaking the auto-green shots. I'm not sure they all agree on how this needs to be tweaked (or even removed entirely), but they understand that the green meter rewards user skill to a degree that sometimes takes away from the sim feel of a game.


    To the people who are pro-green shot meter, I have a couple simple questions for you. Do you not think it requires skill to create good shot opportunities? Do you think that rewarding users who create good shot opportunities need an additional crutch in a timing based system that has been proven to be easily exploitable? You already showcased your skill to create the opportunity to begin with. Why not just let the stats, abilities, badges, etc determine the rest?

    The green shot meter reminds me a lot of when FPS games lower the TTK (time to kill), allowing even noobs to kill top level players with a single shot or two. It changes the entire feel of the game. No longer are players worried about their other skills as much as they're worried about how fast they can get their twitch mechanics. In NBA2k, the importance of the meter is scaled too high compared to other factors, similar to the twitch mechanic in some FPS games.

    To each their own. Feel free to disagree. I'm open to hearing the opposing view.
    There’s nothing skilled or competitive about shooting how it currently is. When the green window is as large as it is how can anyone utter the word competitive. Allowing everyone to be a shooter negates the “ creme de la creme” point.

    You can’t tell the difference between a good or mediocre shooter on 2k/

    Comment

    • Luke Skywalker
      Pro
      • Dec 2014
      • 917

      #212
      Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

      Originally posted by jk31
      Standard superstar sliders. So yes, 3pt slider at 50. i noted down every (open) 3pt attempt by me and my (human) opponents over a span of 13 games (excluding very early/late attempts). we Hit 167 Greens while non Greens only Fell 58/290. slightly early/late went in with 23.5 % (48/205) and early/late went in with 11.6 % (10/86).
      At 50, it feels very overpowered. I dropped it down to 45 for me and the CPU. I need to see some wide open misses from both sides.

      Comment

      • jk31
        MVP
        • Sep 2014
        • 2662

        #213
        Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

        Originally posted by Luke Skywalker
        At 50, it feels very overpowered. I dropped it down to 45 for me and the CPU. I need to see some wide open misses from both sides.

        but dont you increase the gap between Good and average shooters even further when you lower the 3pt slider? dont average shooters basically turn into non shooters then while Good shooters still Hit many shots?

        Comment

        • jk31
          MVP
          • Sep 2014
          • 2662

          #214
          Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

          Originally posted by Cardinal Sin
          I will be honest I think both sides have some merit in this argument. Excess RNG is anathema to any competitive video gamer, while a lack of RNG is contrary to the actual game of basketball (or really any sport for that matter). Consequently 2k is kind of in a lose-lose situation when it comes to the shooting issue, they almost need a totally separate sim style game, and an arcady (or if you prefer a "skill-based") version for the online/competitive play.

          I do agree though that being able to time a button press is a pretty loose definition of a "skill-gap" and also that the skill-gap overall in 2k is still quite low compared to your more prototypical E-sports games. Although it has been a major focus of 2k since about 2k18 to build the "competitive" aspect of the game and grow the skill-gap I don't really know if they have made much progress. I will say the contact dunk meter, and alley-oop timing is a step in the right direction, but they definitely need to do more.

          i dont See why we need artificial skill gaps when the game of Basketball itself is a massive skillgap. Basketball IQ, offensive execution, shot selection, defensive scheming. All of that creates a massive skillgap to separate Good from Bad players.

          Comment

          • BQ32
            Pro
            • Jan 2011
            • 671

            #215
            Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

            I actually feel like 2k22 has drastically reduced the green vs bust meta and is now much more of a open vs contest. At least online with myplayer. With a high shot rating as long as your timing is slightly early or late and you are wide open without being too deep you will still make most of your shots. In years past you would have been clanking left and right until you got that sweet spot down. I actually just changed my jumpshot, practiced for like 20 minutes before jumping in city games and my percentage has basically stayed the same. I never dared to change my jumper before when I got one I liked and was used to. Used the same jumper for 2 years until yesterday and now am having fun experimenting with different combinations again. This year the skill gap is catered more towards generating open looks with stick skills/IQ and defensive rotations and ability to stay in front of the ball which is why I think this is the best playing 2k on a user vs user basis. Now against the computer I feel that some of you guys might be having trouble shooting because the AI is super sticky (unrealistically so) and either slides through screens or instantly switches leaving little opportunities for open jumpers by the ball handler. Off ball strong side down screens will get you a ton of open looks against the AI. Or attack the screener early (even though you wouldn't do that in real life because your teammate will be open for offensive fouls) and catch the AI before it decides if it wants to full commit to the switch. This will get you into open space or you can drive and wait for the weak side corner to drop and kick out for the corner 3.

            Comment

            • Luke Skywalker
              Pro
              • Dec 2014
              • 917

              #216
              Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

              Originally posted by jk31
              but dont you increase the gap between Good and average shooters even further when you lower the 3pt slider? dont average shooters basically turn into non shooters then while Good shooters still Hit many shots?
              It isn’t as drastic as you think.

              Comment

              • trandoanhung1991
                Rookie
                • Nov 2012
                • 372

                #217
                Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

                I have an idea for green releases: make that thing much more contextual!


                So now it's not timing based, but animation based. You don't set your feet right - later release, you hop into the shot - earlier release, you're shooting over people - later release, you're shooting over a tall closeout - earlier release, etc etc.


                Make people work for their greens, and make greens a rare, truly gratifying part of the game. I love the idea of being able to determine a clutch shot myself, but at the same time I wouldn't want everything in the game to revolve around that.

                Comment

                • loso_34
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 1346

                  #218
                  Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens



                  That explains why open shots are OP

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