2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

[tru11]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

There's other people out there who've played both madden and 2K for years.

Ya'll think you're the only ones who've been around lol. In the last few years, 2K has become great at innovating ways to spend VC or give gimmicks. The gameplay has not progressed like it should've. It's going in the same direction as Madden, especially with some in the 2k community throwing their hands up in the air and saying "Well it's a business, I guess I'll just buy it every year 'cause it's the only game out there".



monopoly:

"the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service."



It really doesn't matter how the monopoly happened, the effects are the same. Madden bought their way to it, 2K won it by literally making EA quit. But that was years ago. They haven't had real competition for years, and it's 100% related to why they went into the direction they did and are going further and further away from what made them a good company / product.

Look up what exclusive means.




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[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Look up what exclusive means.




Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

The German definition is a little bit different here:

Als Monopol wird in den Wirtschaftswissenschaften und in der Wirtschaft eine Marktform genannt, bei welcher nur ein Anbieter vorhanden ist.


In English (freely translated): A monopoly is a type of market situation where there is only one supplier of a certain commodity.


So exactly the situation we have: We have a market situation where there is only one company offering basketball "simulations": It's 2k. Nobody else dares to face them by bringing one out themselves thus they have the monopoly on basketball "simulations".

[Pokes404]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

The German definition is a little bit different here:

Als Monopol wird in den Wirtschaftswissenschaften und in der Wirtschaft eine Marktform genannt, bei welcher nur ein Anbieter vorhanden ist.


In English (freely translated): A monopoly is a type of market situation where there is only one supplier of a certain commodity.


So exactly the situation we have: We have a market situation where there is only one company offering basketball "simulations": It's 2k. Nobody else dares to face them by bringing one out themselves thus they have the monopoly on basketball "simulations".

2K has a de facto monopoly on simulation NBA basketball ... EA has a legal, contractual monopoly on simulation NFL football. One of those is built on outperforming market competition, and the other is built by denying the market any competition. That's where the difference lies.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

2K has a de facto monopoly on simulation NBA basketball ... EA has a legal, contractual monopoly on simulation NFL football. One of those is built on outperforming market competition, and the other is built by denying the market any competition. That's where the difference lies.

Personally I would compare 2K's position to WWE. After buying out their only major competitor, WWE had this same sort of de facto monopoly situation for years....were there other wrestling companies and shows? Sure, but they never commanded much more than a very minor market share or media attention so it wasn't exactly serious competition.

That situation did not change until relatively recently, with investors willing to invest the kind of serious capital needed to put together a reasonably competitive alternative product. IMO this is probably what needs to happen for 2K to ever change.

[Pokes404]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Personally I would compare 2K's position to WWE. After buying out their only major competitor, WWE had this same sort of de facto monopoly situation for years....were there other wrestling companies and shows? Sure, but they never commanded much more than a very minor market share or media attention so it wasn't exactly serious competition.

That situation did not change until relatively recently, with investors willing to invest the kind of serious capital needed to put together a reasonably competitive alternative product. IMO this is probably what needs to happen for 2K to ever change.

Once again though, 2K hasn't signed an exclusivity deal or bought out anyone with any kind of chance of competing with them. They've become a monopoly because they outperformed everyone else in their marketplace. Customers decided that 2K had the superior product to such an extent that everyone else has stopped trying to compete with them (for now). I know you want some competition for them to keep the series from getting stagnant (I do too), but we've seen what other competitors can bring to the table and the general consensus was that they brought inferior products. But we've at least seen it. We've had the chance to play those games and judge for ourselves.



The agonizing, and infuriating, thing about Madden is that there's a chance someone else could be putting out a superior NFL simulation ... but we'll never know because they legally can't even make the attempt. Someone might come along and knock NBA 2K off its pedestal some day (the same way 2K knocked Live off 10-15 years ago). But Madden? As long as they keep paying the money (or the NFL changes its mind about the exclusivity deal), they won't ever have to worry about competitors and can leave us all to wonder what could be.

[VujacicFT]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

IMO the biggest problem with greens is there is no risk in going for them, only reward. Shooting your team into/out of a game is a high risk, high reward strategy and that should be reflected in the mechanic.


The "penalty" at the moment for missing your green is a white, which is still a good percentage shot with a high-rated/badged out shooter. The fix IMO is to adopt FIFA's system of having to double-tap the shoot button within the window to go for a green, so you have to risk the penalty of a guaranteed miss/lowered percentage shot for mistiming.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Once again though, 2K hasn't signed an exclusivity deal or bought out anyone with any kind of chance of competing with them. They've become a monopoly because they outperformed everyone else in their marketplace. Customers decided that 2K had the superior product to such an extent that everyone else has stopped trying to compete with them (for now). I know you want some competition for them to keep the series from getting stagnant (I do too), but we've seen what other competitors can bring to the table and the general consensus was that they brought inferior products. But we've at least seen it. We've had the chance to play those games and judge for ourselves.



The agonizing, and infuriating, thing about Madden is that there's a chance someone else could be putting out a superior NFL simulation ... but we'll never know because they legally can't even make the attempt. Someone might come along and knock NBA 2K off its pedestal some day (the same way 2K knocked Live off 10-15 years ago). But Madden? As long as they keep paying the money (or the NFL changes its mind about the exclusivity deal), they won't ever have to worry about competitors and can leave us all to wonder what could be.

I think you misinterpreted the analogy.

Without getting too detailed...WWE ran its only competitor into bankruptcy by offering a superior product then snapped up the rights to their name and tape library when they went out of business and liquidated their assets. That led to almost 20 years of noone being able to offer a product of a high enough level to be considered competition.

I liken this to 2K pushing Live out of the market via a superior product followed by years of noone being able to offer a product on a high enough level to be considered serious competition.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I think you misinterpreted the analogy.

Without getting too detailed...WWE ran its only competitor into bankruptcy by offering a superior product then snapped up the rights to their name and tape library when they went out of business and liquidated their assets. That led to almost 20 years of noone being able to offer a product of a high enough level to be considered competition.

I liken this to 2K pushing Live out of the market via a superior product followed by years of noone being able to offer a product on a high enough level to be considered serious competition.

You two are arguing the same thing...

NBA 2K is the only game in town...fair and square, and nothing prevents other companies from attempting to offer a "competitive" product. Some people (like myself) hate using the word "monopoly", because it implies that NBA 2K got its market share maliciously. De facto Monopoly? Fine...whatever. If people want to be mad about the "lack of competition", fine; however, how is it 2KSports' fault for creating a game so "superior" that no other companies dares to go against them? That's like being mad at them for being successful.

EDIT: While I'm thinking about...if anyone expects NBA 2K to suddenly fail, they're badly mistaking. EA Sports provided the blueprint on how to a destroy franchise (NBA Live). Unless they literally make the same mistakes, they're not going to have any "epic fails" anytime soon. If anything, NBA 2K will end up being stale first, because they flatout ran out of ideas to innovate the game before they have any "epic fails".

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

You two are arguing the same thing...

NBA 2K is the only game in town...fair and square, and nothing prevents other companies from attempting to offer a "competitive" product. Some people (like myself) hate using the word "monopoly", because it implies that NBA 2K got its market share maliciously. De facto Monopoly? Fine...whatever. If people want to be mad about the "lack of competition", fine; however, how is it 2KSports' fault for creating a game so "superior" that no other companies dares to go against them? That's like being mad at them for being successful.

EDIT: While I'm thinking about...if anyone expects NBA 2K to suddenly fail, they're badly mistaking. EA Sports provided the blueprint on how to a destroy franchise (NBA Live). Unless they literally make the same mistakes, they're not going to have any "epic fails" anytime soon. If anything, NBA 2K will end up being stale first, because they flatout ran out of ideas to innovate the game before they have any "epic fails".

I know, I just wanted to clarify any miscommunication that might have happened.

I agree that there will not be some sort of sudden overnight collapse. If anything I think it will be a situation more akin to Call of Duty: A slow decline in quality until eventually other companies are able to break into the market and competition happens again.

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

You two are arguing the same thing...

NBA 2K is the only game in town...fair and square, and nothing prevents other companies from attempting to offer a "competitive" product. Some people (like myself) hate using the word "monopoly", because it implies that NBA 2K got its market share maliciously. De facto Monopoly? Fine...whatever. If people want to be mad about the "lack of competition", fine; however, how is it 2KSports' fault for creating a game so "superior" that no other companies dares to go against them? That's like being mad at them for being successful.

EDIT: While I'm thinking about...if anyone expects NBA 2K to suddenly fail, they're badly mistaking. EA Sports provided the blueprint on how to a destroy franchise (NBA Live). Unless they literally make the same mistakes, they're not going to have any "epic fails" anytime soon. If anything, NBA 2K will end up being stale first, because they flatout ran out of ideas to innovate the game before they have any "epic fails".

the thing is: because of the "de facto monopoly" or what ever you wanna call it the quality of the game gets Worse each year it seems. at least from the Position of the sim community it seems.

[Nickorut]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

The greens are really ruining the game since it affects how you play defence.

But anyways, that doesnt seems to be the discussion here…

2k is making a great product. GREAT! And they are focusing on ”rebuilding the defence” which by no means is a ”gimmickly selling point”.

Its by bo means perfect and there is a degree of greediness but still… if you play every game in a season in mycareer without spending any money you will be like a 86 rated player with 30
badges by the start of year 2. You hardly have to buy VC as an offline mycareer-player and in the mygm mode you get the, by far, greatest franschise mode there has ever been in any game.

They are not perfect by any means but come on… the pure bashing of the game should stop.

Great graphics, great presentation, den franschise mode, loads och custimization option, great single player campaign and great support for online gaming (except for the peoole that hunting for exploits)

2k:s nba is the greatest sports game in the world by far and although not perfect i really dont understand the huge amount of whining.


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[Mortiis]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

''greens'' are the dumbest BS 2k ever invented in the game...totally ruins the experience

[AIRJ23]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Nah modern shooters don’t make anywhere close to 70% of wide open threes lmao. How many clown plays do we see where players could drive to the rack on a wide open layup or dunk fast break but instead kick out to a bozo who bricks. Most threes are uncontested these days anyway. Nowhere near 70%.

[Ragnar53]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

The NBA as a whole shoots just about 40% from 3 when left WIDE OPEN. 40 percent.



Not 70%.



Nowhere close to that number.

[AIRJ23]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

The NBA as a whole shoots just about 40% from 3 when left WIDE OPEN. 40 percent.



Not 70%.



Nowhere close to that number.

People are hilarious. Dude obviously missed the playoffs where it was more like 70% misses on wide open threes.