2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

[EarvGotti]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

It's funny because Mike Wang actually came on OS saying that he regretted making green releases guaranteed makes. I can't remember the exact year but it was either around 2K15 or 2K16.

He noticed how it affected the community's perception of basketball and the game but it was already too late to revert.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

People online can do whatever cheesy bs they want, but it's 100% on 2K to manage the gameplay environment and what types of things are successful. Pro-am is supposed to be a competitive sim mode, especially since it's an esport now. No one's forcing 2K to put in arcade stuff like a deep range badge that let's players shoot from 45 feet out like it's nothing, or handles for days badge that let's players spam dribbling moves. There's plenty more of things like that and that's all on 2K making a conscious decision to allow it or even encourage it.



Ok I guess the solution is to be quiet and never say anything Lol. I'm gonna keep blaming and criticizing 2K until they get a clue, even if it's futile, for pretending to be a company who wants to create a Nba simulation. Mike Wang lies to the 2K community every single year and he should be called out for it. It's called accountability.

I understand you feelings on this....as a fellow sim head it is very frustrating to see a product that at one time at least made a really good go of trying to be realistic slowly change into one that is mostly arcade.

Personally I have come to a realization that current 2K in its current approach has basically chosen to present itself like a free to play mobile game that you pay $60 for every year.....does that stink? Yeah, but casual "Fortnite style" gaming is where all the money is right now and with how rampant mindless consumerism is now it probably won't change. I just think at this point I have a choice too...and that choice is that it's better for me to play older 2K's that are more to my liking, and not give Take 2 any more of my money until they (or someone else) offer me a product that is worth the money.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I understand you feelings on this....as a fellow sim head it is very frustrating to see a product that at one time at least made a really good go of trying to be realistic slowly change into one that is mostly arcade.

Personally I have come to a realization that current 2K in its current approach has basically chosen to present itself like a free to play mobile game that you pay $60 for every year.....does that stink? Yeah, but casual "Fortnite style" gaming is where all the money is right now and with how rampant mindless consumerism is now it probably won't change. I just think at this point I have a choice too...and that choice is that it's better for me to play older 2K's that are more to my liking, and not give Take 2 any more of my money until they (or someone else) offer me a product that is worth the money.

At this point 2K = EA Madden and the 2K community = defeated / frustrated Madden community. "Oh well it's the only game on the market, what are we supposed to do, it is what it is. Take my $70 EA, I mean 2K"

The more silent you are the more the casuals fill the feedback vacuum and this game will just continue to downward spiral until it's basically NBA Jam.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

It's funny because Mike Wang actually came on OS saying that he regretted making green releases guaranteed makes. I can't remember the exact year but it was either around 2K15 or 2K16.

He noticed how it affected the community's perception of basketball and the game but it was already too late to revert.

So he's had 7 years to fix it?

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

At this point 2K = EA Madden and the 2K community = defeated / frustrated Madden community. "Oh well it's the only game on the market, what are we supposed to do, it is what it is. Take my $70 EA, I mean 2K"

The more silent you are the more the casuals fill the feedback vacuum and this game will just continue to downward spiral until it's basically NBA Jam.

That's a pretty decent assessment of the situation; since the inception of VC, 2K has basically abandoned most of the sim approach (other than the occasional bone they throw us) and intentionally built itself as an online centric game with a large fanbase of casual consumers that are more concerned with the flash of crazy outfits, wacky dances, and constant highlight plays so they can "flex" on random online people than they are with just straight up solid basketball, and they're willing to pay extra for it.

Really it shouldn't be a surprise since Take 2 pretty much trades on wacky online modes with outlandish features that are designed to get into your wallet as much as possible without much in the way of quality gameplay.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

At this point 2K = EA Madden and the 2K community = defeated / frustrated Madden community. "Oh well it's the only game on the market, what are we supposed to do, it is what it is. Take my $70 EA, I mean 2K"

The more silent you are the more the casuals fill the feedback vacuum and this game will just continue to downward spiral until it's basically NBA Jam.

I wish people would stop acting like it's 2K's fault for being the only game in the market. There's nothing that prevents other companies from entering the basketball videogame arena.

[tru11]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

At this point 2K = EA Madden and the 2K community = defeated / frustrated Madden community. "Oh well it's the only game on the market, what are we supposed to do, it is what it is. Take my $70 EA, I mean 2K"

The more silent you are the more the casuals fill the feedback vacuum and this game will just continue to downward spiral until it's basically NBA Jam.

EA madden pays to be the only game on the market, 2K does not.
2K product was so good EA quit.
Had EA not paid the the nfl , madden would be where live is right now ….

Their is an exclusive license with the nfl.
Their is no exclusive license with the nba.




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[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

EA madden pays to be the only game on the market, 2K does not.
2K product was so good EA quit.
Had EA not paid the the nfl , madden would be where live is right now ….

Their is an exclusive license with the nfl.
Their is no exclusive license with the nba.




Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

I don't know about Madden ending up like Live. Madden was the bigger Juggernaut than NBA Live hands down. NBA 2K was always kind of nipping at the heels of NBA Live since NBA 2K4.

Don't get me wrong. I do believe that NFL 2K5 did put the fear of God in them. I definitely believe that Madden was enough of a money maker for EA that they would continue to push innovation just to keep NFL 2K off their backs. Madden and the NFL 2K series, to me, could have been a true case of competition forcing innovation between two companies.

[scottyp180]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

At this point 2K = EA Madden and the 2K community = defeated / frustrated Madden community. "Oh well it's the only game on the market, what are we supposed to do, it is what it is. Take my $70 EA, I mean 2K"

The more silent you are the more the casuals fill the feedback vacuum and this game will just continue to downward spiral until it's basically NBA Jam.

It has little to do with how quiet or loud people are, end of the day money talks. With how established the 2K brand is it's hard to imagine sales ever dipping to a point where 2K needs to rethink it's strategy and focus their attention on gameplay and the sim community. Fact of the matter is they're going to value the customers that bring in the most money, which is the audience that plays VC centric modes.

This also isn't a 2K specific problem. We are seeing this throughout the game industry as there has been a shift to games, modes, and models that allow companies to make money throughout a games lifecycle instead of relying solely on sales.

And to go back to the topic of changes being made based on the vocal community, an argument could be made that EA was finally forced to address the Franchise mode because of backlash however that's a very different situation than anything concerning 2k. For one EA neglected that mode for years. 2K might not make big changes year in and year out but it's rare to see modes go completely untouched for 2k, especially for multiple releases. The backlash also got to a point where it couldn't be ignored. I recall some media outlets (I want to say ESPN) talking about it. The disappointment for 2k isn't close to that level yet and usually the most vocal complaints have to do with My Player centric modes.

TL,DR unless 2K's sales and revenue takes a hit because of lack of gameplay improvements I don't see 2K reverting back to a commitment towards sim gameplay and I just don't think the Sim community is big enough or disappointed enough to make it an issue that 2K can't ignore.

[scottyp180]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I don't know about Madden ending up like Live. Madden was the bigger Juggernaut than NBA Live hands down. NBA 2K was always kind of nipping at the heels of NBA Live since NBA 2K4.

Don't get me wrong. I do believe that NFL 2K5 did put the fear of God in them. I definitely believe that Madden was enough of a money maker for EA that they would continue to push innovation just to keep NFL 2K off their backs. Madden and the NFL 2K series, to me, could have been a true case of competition forcing innovation between two companies.

With the way things were going Madden would have had to eventually step up their game but, like you said, the Madden name was so big it's hard to imagine the series would have went the NBA Live route. Maybe it's because I was younger and something like a videogame release felt like a big deal but I remember Madden releases feeling like an event and I wasn't even a Madden fan.

The unfortunate thing about the NFL exclusivity contract is that 2K may have shot themselves in the foot and pushed the NFL to make the deal with EA by selling ESPN NFL 2k5 for $20. I always heard that the NFL wasn't happy about that. Ironically I think that's also part of the reason 2k5 was so beloved because people that normally would have never bought 2k decided to give it a shot because of the bargain price at release. It also came out weeks before Madden 05 which gave it an edge in two areas.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

With the way things were going Madden would have had to eventually step up their game but, like you said, the Madden name was so big it's hard to imagine the series would have went the NBA Live route. Maybe it's because I was younger and something like a videogame release felt like a big deal but I remember Madden releases feeling like an event and I wasn't even a Madden fan.



The unfortunate thing about the NFL exclusivity contract is that 2K may have shot themselves in the foot and pushed the NFL to make the deal with EA by selling ESPN NFL 2k5 for $20. I always heard that the NFL wasn't happy about that. Ironically I think that's also part of the reason 2k5 was so beloved because people that normally would have never bought 2k decided to give it a shot because of the bargain price at release. It also came out weeks before Madden 05 which gave it an edge in two areas.

NFL 2K5 was a solid game. I'm not even a football fan and even I got into the game. I sometimes wonder about the NFL part of that history. I thought the NFL wanted an exclusive deal, and EA had the money to do it at the time.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I wish people would stop acting like it's 2K's fault for being the only game in the market. There's nothing that prevents other companies from entering the basketball videogame arena.

I never said it was their fault, just that the existence of the monopoly has and is turning them more and more into the company they defeated.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

EA madden pays to be the only game on the market, 2K does not.
2K product was so good EA quit.
Had EA not paid the the nfl , madden would be where live is right now ….

Their is an exclusive license with the nfl.
Their is no exclusive license with the nba.




Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Operation Sports

Yeah we all know the history of it. Doesn't change my point that the monopoly is making them have the same exact traits as Madden, and the 2K Community is following suit. "Gee whiz we can't do anything about it it's a business". Vocalizing the complaints and criticism when warranted and being louder on social media is a good thing. If more sim heads spoke up they might actually have some influence over the direction of the game.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

It has little to do with how quiet or loud people are

I think it absolutely has to do with social media and youtube and how vocal the feedback is.

At end of the day money talks. With how established the 2K brand is it's hard to imagine sales ever dipping to a point where 2K needs to rethink it's strategy and focus their attention on gameplay and the sim community. Fact of the matter is they're going to value the customers that bring in the most money, which is the audience that plays VC centric modes.

I don't think paying for VC specifically makes something 'unsim' or is a conflict. I probably pay $200+ a year on VC lol to make new builds for Rec and Pro Am. Sim people just want a realistic gameplay environment if a mode is being labeled that way (obviously arcade Park and MyTEAM with the 500 badges isn't designed to be sim). The problem is they don't know how to balance the gameplay with cheesy op builds.

The backlash also got to a point where it couldn't be ignored. I recall some media outlets (I want to say ESPN) talking about it. The disappointment for 2k isn't close to that level yet and usually the most vocal complaints have to do with My Player centric modes.

Well there ya go -- backlash works. If people want to criticize unrealistic gameplay and a company sucking -- when it's actually warranted -- I 100% support that and encourage that.

[tru11]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Yeah we all know the history of it. Doesn't change my point that the monopoly is making them have the same exact traits as Madden, and the 2K Community is following suit. "Gee whiz we can't do anything about it it's a business". Vocalizing the complaints and criticism when warranted and being louder on social media is a good thing. If more sim heads spoke up they might actually have some influence over the direction of the game.

Its not a monopoly.




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