2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

[J_Posse]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

You can, it's in the controller settings and I think regular settings, but it won't stop perfect animations.

Never liked perfect releases, especially for a sport like basketball. Rather ratings and shot selection matter more vs getting the timing down. Having the perfect release should mean there's a higher chance of going in, not an absolute.

I agree with this sentiment completely and wish there was an option to make "greenies" no longer automatic.

There is no "automatic" makes in basketball since players can blow wide - open layups and dunks.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I admire that everyone is still tackling this issue. I gave up on the subject. Too many MyPlayer users believe that if you do everything "perfect" that you should get "perfect" results despite the fact that basketball is not a "perfect" game. To these people, missing is should NOT be an outcome when they do everything "perfectly".

Badge stacking that dramatically increases your chances to get a green despite your BEST efforts on defense or the popularity of Zen controllers is another topic by themselves for me.

[Guard-ian]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I admire that everyone is still tackling this issue. I gave up on the subject. Too many MyPlayer users believe that if you do everything "perfect" that you should get "perfect" results despite the fact that basketball is not a "perfect" game. To these people, missing is should NOT be an outcome when they do everything "perfectly".

Badge stacking that dramatically increases your chances to get a green despite your BEST efforts on defense or the popularity of Zen controllers is another topic by themselves for me.

But that Zen stuff was already solved right or is it still an issue? I remember playing Playnow Online that there were some people getting green after green in the Center but at some point that stopped happening at least on current gen...

In any case, it's really awful when you disable the shot feedback to avoid spoilers but still you see the green in the shooting bar of your opponent which there is no way to remove it...

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Honestly, This sounds too far on the other end of the spectrum, and you want the game to rely solely on percentages, taking user skill out of the equation. Why not just play on Real Player %?

High % shots aren't created equal in real life...there's no 'fairness' to shooting in basketball...someone's contested mid range could be more reliable than someone's open 3 because of their skill levels.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

but we are Not talking User skill out of the equation at all?



1) shot selection and offensive Exekution IS a user skill
2) shot Timing of course should matter. but Not to a degree where you are able to increase your shot percentage from 40 % to 100 % just because you Pressed a Button for the right amount of time. like it was in older 2ks (especially 2k11)was perfect. getting a perfect Release meant you got a small boost to your shot percentage.

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I'm sorry I don't get your last paragraph; just looking for clarification. Are you saying that you are upset because person A was able to time his shot better than person B thus got better results and that screws up competitiveness? or are you saying that both player A and player B timed the shot exactly the same but you are upset that player A got better RNG rolls to hit more greens than player B so we should add more RNG to fix that? Not trying to be a smart ***, just curious

it screws up competitiveness in a way that Timing the shot can decide between getting busted by 30 or winning by 30 though maybe both players basically played equally well (in the worst case).

[Masai]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

To truly be a simulation game everybody should be playing on RF% … the latency of 2k is too poor to use timing

stick skills with the ball is more than enough to cover a skill gap. When you incorporate close to guaranteed baskets it just encourages spamming

[loso_34]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

yeah we need more RNG in the game

Well yea it’s basketball not COD.

[loso_34]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

But that Zen stuff was already solved right or is it still an issue? I remember playing Playnow Online that there were some people getting green after green in the Center but at some point that stopped happening at least on current gen...

In any case, it's really awful when you disable the shot feedback to avoid spoilers but still you see the green in the shooting bar of your opponent which there is no way to remove it...

Excellent timing scripts are still around and been around for years.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

But that Zen stuff was already solved right or is it still an issue? I remember playing Playnow Online that there were some people getting green after green in the Center but at some point that stopped happening at least on current gen...

In any case, it's really awful when you disable the shot feedback to avoid spoilers but still you see the green in the shooting bar of your opponent which there is no way to remove it...

I think they had a hot fix for it, but that came in April. I was already chased off NBA 2K21 and back to playing NBA 2K20 as my main basketball fix.

[BQ32]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

But that Zen stuff was already solved right or is it still an issue? I remember playing Playnow Online that there were some people getting green after green in the Center but at some point that stopped happening at least on current gen...

In any case, it's really awful when you disable the shot feedback to avoid spoilers but still you see the green in the shooting bar of your opponent which there is no way to remove it...

No it hasn't been solved. When using shot aiming with feedback on it was too easy for everyone to tell you were using it so everyone turns it off in which case you just need to press down on the analog stick and the scripts register that as a perfect pull everytime. Even if they patch out all the aiming they still have timing scripts to register a perfect time shot by just pushing button. These guys are assigning the script to a certain button to get a perfect release whenever they are set.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

but we are Not talking User skill out of the equation at all?



1) shot selection and offensive Exekution IS a user skill
2) shot Timing of course should matter. but Not to a degree where you are able to increase your shot percentage from 40 % to 100 % just because you Pressed a Button for the right amount of time. like it was in older 2ks (especially 2k11)was perfect. getting a perfect Release meant you got a small boost to your shot percentage.

1) That's a nice sentiment, and a nice thing to say, and you're not necessarily wrong, but it's just one of the many things that go into basketball and user skill. Of the top 5 teams that generated the most open shots this past season...one of them made the playoffs..a lot of factors go into that.

2) My argument isn't necessarily that greens should stick around, I don't know what the solution is, but I truly believe a lot of people are remembering the overall balance in those older games and equating it with the ideal shooting system. The entire idea of the meter was brought on because of user feedback on shooting. Some players were unusable because of their sig shots, We'd have a "I can't use Player X" thread every year and a lot of times it did come down to the better shooter...but everyone was in the same boat.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

1) That's a nice sentiment, and a nice thing to say, and you're not necessarily wrong, but it's just one of the many things that go into basketball and user skill. Of the top 5 teams that generated the most open shots this past season...one of them made the playoffs..a lot of factors go into that.

2) My argument isn't necessarily that greens should stick around, I don't know what the solution is, but I truly believe a lot of people are remembering the overall balance in those older games and equating it with the ideal shooting system. The entire idea of the meter was brought on because of user feedback on shooting. Some players were unusable because of their sig shots, We'd have a "I can't use Player X" thread every year and a lot of times it did come down to the better shooter...but everyone was in the same boat.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

It's amazing what started out to be a shooting tool to calibrate your shot, suddenly became THE deciding factor for determining if the shot goes in.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

What people like you don't understand is, that "RNG" (how I ****ing hate this term) is part of the game of basketball. The whole game is about shot percentages nowadays in the NBA. The goal of basketball (well besides "score more points than your opponent") is to get more higher percentage shots than your opponent because then you will most likely win. It should be like this in 2k, too and you know what? It was like that up until NBA 2k15 or 2k16! If you are able to get better shots than your opponent for the duration of a game you likely came up as the winner.


What these automatic green makes do is divide the shot percentages too much. A good shooter like Steph Curry has way too good shot percentages compared to his real self while guys in the 80 3pt rating range without badges, who shot sth like 36 % in real life, will shoot below 30 % in 2k because it's not as easy to get a green shot with them. Makes the whole game an arcady cheesefest about who is able to get more green releases, not who is able to execute better on offense.


I mean, think about it, just a thought game for the sake of showing you what I mean:
You have two players taking the exact same shots with the exact same rating, no defender around, so basically same shot quality.

Player A shoots 40 % on non-green threes and does not get a single green release. He will hit 4 out of 10 shots, resulting in 12 points on 4/10 shooting (40 %)

Player B shoots 40 % on non-green threes and hits 3 green shots. He will hit these 3 shots AND additionally 40 % of the other 7 shots, resulting in 17.4 points on 5.8/10 shooting (58 %).


So both players took EXACTLY the same shots, but player b shot 18 % better, because he is able to get green releases? This completely ****s up the competitiveness of the game. And I know from my experience in our online leagues that there are guys that green basically every 3rd 3 pointer while there are others that don't hit a single green in a whole 40 minute game.....

Exactly and well said. And sounds like Beluba will introduce more of this in 2K22 for a 'skill gap'. On one hand, there should be a learning curve and skill gap, on the other, the 'gamer' mechanics and the gamey things (green shots, badges, glitchy moves) have become more important than gameplay balance and iq.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

but we are Not talking User skill out of the equation at all?



1) shot selection and offensive Exekution IS a user skill
2) shot Timing of course should matter. but Not to a degree where you are able to increase your shot percentage from 40 % to 100 % just because you Pressed a Button for the right amount of time. like it was in older 2ks (especially 2k11)was perfect. getting a perfect Release meant you got a small boost to your shot percentage.

Boosts from the supposed 'skill' of timing a button need to be cut in half for real. All people gotta do is go on youtube and find a money jumper and it's a wrap. Zero skill in that.

I'd love to see

build/archetype quality
badges
gamer/gamey mechanics

all have less effect and 2K return to trying to make a basketball game again where balance and realism matter again.

[JJ1111]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

"Competitive" players may get upset but the way things are looking 2k competitive scene will never take off. A change need to happen

Most 2K esports players are gamers not hoopers. They're good at mashing buttons.