2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

like said many times: in his best season, the best shooter of All time (steph Curry) shot 53 % on wide open shots. you can Look up These Stats on nba.com Player tracking Stats pages.

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I am right now testing the shooting (standard superstar sliders) for our online league. I am taking notes of every three point attempt by me and my (human) opponent that is taken, which was open (I consider below 10 % contest as open) and not completely mistimed (so no very early/late shots).


I am not considering in the 3pt rating of a player as this would be too much during a game. But as its nearly impossible to get early/late releases from 3 with shooters below 70 this is neglectable. Basically no shots were taken by players with a 3pt rating of below 77.



I only played 4 games yet, but here are the numbers I accumulated:


Early: 13.3 % (4/30)
Slightly Early: 5.6 % (2/36)
Perfect: 100 % (40/40)
Slightly Late: 31.3 % (5/16)
Late: 0.0 % (0/3)


Early/Late: 12.1 % (4/33)

Slightly Early/Late: 13.5 % (7/52)
Non Greens: 12.9 % (11/85)
Total Shot Percentage: 40.8 % (51/125)





In my opinion it's crazy how many greens there are this year. Every third (open and not mistimed) attempt is a green. And this is while we did not really practice that much resulting in many early/late shots that could be "upgraded" to slightly or even green releases with more practice. On the other hand non greens are not falling at all. 13 % on not perfect but still good timed shots with solid to good shooters? That's really really bad. Another funny thing is that there seems to be no difference between early/late and slightly early/late. I would expect a big increase in shot percentage when being able to at least get a slightly release.


Especially as I fear (I need more numbers for that) that good shooters with badges get far more greens than average shooters with no badges. If true, this will result in way too high shooting numbers for the likes of Steph Curry while average shooters that 2k gave no badges (many rotation players that shoot like 35 % in real life) will not hit a thing as they get far less greens.

It has at least been like that in 2k21 where guys like Raul Neto (85 3pt, no badges) or Myles Turner (77 3pt, no badges) shot roughly 20 % from deep in our league while Tobias Harris and the Curry brothers were close to 60 % over the season.



Another thing I wanna test is the new "shot timing malus" slider available to us. Maybe we can finetune shooting if we increase the difficulty of getting a green (by reducing the 3pt slider) and simultaneously increasing the shot percentage of non-green shots (by reducing the timing malus slider). If this works out we could bring shot percentages of averages and good shooters closer together and to more realistic numbers.

[Mortiis]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

2k please, PLEEEEASEEEE remo those stupid greens! i dont wanna know when the shot is going in damn it!

[bucknut7]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

I am right now testing the shooting (standard superstar sliders) for our online league. I am taking notes of every three point attempt by me and my (human) opponent that is taken, which was open (I consider below 10 % contest as open) and not completely mistimed (so no very early/late shots).


I am not considering in the 3pt rating of a player as this would be too much during a game. But as its nearly impossible to get early/late releases from 3 with shooters below 70 this is neglectable. Basically no shots were taken by players with a 3pt rating of below 77.



I only played 4 games yet, but here are the numbers I accumulated:


Early: 13.3 % (4/30)
Slightly Early: 5.6 % (2/36)
Perfect: 100 % (40/40)
Slightly Late: 31.3 % (5/16)
Late: 0.0 % (0/3)


Early/Late: 12.1 % (4/33)

Slightly Early/Late: 13.5 % (7/52)
Non Greens: 12.9 % (11/85)
Total Shot Percentage: 40.8 % (51/125)





In my opinion it's crazy how many greens there are this year. Every third (open and not mistimed) attempt is a green. And this is while we did not really practice that much resulting in many early/late shots that could be "upgraded" to slightly or even green releases with more practice. On the other hand non greens are not falling at all. 13 % on not perfect but still good timed shots with solid to good shooters? That's really really bad. Another funny thing is that there seems to be no difference between early/late and slightly early/late. I would expect a big increase in shot percentage when being able to at least get a slightly release.


Especially as I fear (I need more numbers for that) that good shooters with badges get far more greens than average shooters with no badges. If true, this will result in way too high shooting numbers for the likes of Steph Curry while average shooters that 2k gave no badges (many rotation players that shoot like 35 % in real life) will not hit a thing as they get far less greens.

It has at least been like that in 2k21 where guys like Raul Neto (85 3pt, no badges) or Myles Turner (77 3pt, no badges) shot roughly 20 % from deep in our league while Tobias Harris and the Curry brothers were close to 60 % over the season.



Another thing I wanna test is the new "shot timing malus" slider available to us. Maybe we can finetune shooting if we increase the difficulty of getting a green (by reducing the 3pt slider) and simultaneously increasing the shot percentage of non-green shots (by reducing the timing malus slider). If this works out we could bring shot percentages of averages and good shooters closer together and to more realistic numbers.

Would be really interested to know where you land with this... I personally like a little bit of timing aspect in my video game to where I don't find Real % to be engaging, but absolutely detest that it's essentially a Green or Bust world right now.

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Would be really interested to know where you land with this... I personally like a little bit of timing aspect in my video game to where I don't find Real % to be engaging, but absolutely detest that it's essentially a Green or Bust world right now.

Yes, i am on the same boat.having Good (or perfect) Timing definitely should have some sort of effect, but making the difference between 10 % or 100 % Chance which basically is Green or bust? hell no....

[trandoanhung1991]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Yes, i am on the same boat.having Good (or perfect) Timing definitely should have some sort of effect, but making the difference between 10 % or 100 % Chance which basically is Green or bust? hell no....

Do you have shot meter on?

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Do you have shot meter on?

Have you read my post? I am not doing this only for my own shots but also for the shots of my (human) opponent. I myself play without shotmeter, my opponents had both. some played with, some played without. Theres no difference. The only two teams so far that were able to hit slightly early/late shots were teams with good shooters. Kyrie Irving, Trae Young, Tobias Harris, Joe Harris. These players were the only ones that hit slightly early/late consistently. Everyone else hits them around 10-15 %.

[JasonLin]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

You cannot imagine how happy I am seeing someone bring this issue up. I've hated the shot metre/green thing for years, but I thought everyone else was happy about it seeing how popular this topic is on streaming and youtube, everyone was talking about how to make green shots, so I kept quiet and accepted this might be the new reality for basketball gaming.

To put it simple, everyone knows this famous shot by MJ, against the Cavs. He jumped, and stayed in the air, wait for the defender to go down first, and released the ball on his way going down.

How do you recreate this in modern day NBA 2K? Quite simply, you cannot. This completely defies 2K green shooting logic.

Any 2K fans from a decade ago should remember that you were able to do this in NBA 2K11. I had great memories, doing a running fadeaway with Kobe, and stayed in the air for a bit longer (holding down shoot button and don't let go), wait for the defender to miss the block or hear a foul call, and release the ball.. the moment it goes in, I would jump out of my sofa, and replay the shot again and again from all different angles.

All these excitements, all went away, with the invention of green releases.

Now, games are played with almost 0 excitement, because you know the ball is going in, OR you know the ball isn't going in so you already switch to another player to get back on D. You pretty much know the result of 95% of the FG attempts simply by looking at the meter or the animation.

It's not about creativity anymore, the only thing you should pay attention to, is the meter.

And it all became boring.

Some people said you should turn on the REAL FG%. No no no no, it's not the same. My preferred shooting mechanic is "I control the release point, early, or perfect, or late, doesn't matter. The player, the digital clone of that player, he does his best to make it." I think this is the best immersion for gamers who wants to experience a NBA game.

[Levistick]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

What people like you don't understand is, that "RNG" (how I ****ing hate this term) is part of the game of basketball. The whole game is about shot percentages nowadays in the NBA. The goal of basketball (well besides "score more points than your opponent") is to get more higher percentage shots than your opponent because then you will most likely win. It should be like this in 2k, too and you know what? It was like that up until NBA 2k15 or 2k16! If you are able to get better shots than your opponent for the duration of a game you likely came up as the winner.


What these automatic green makes do is divide the shot percentages too much. A good shooter like Steph Curry has way too good shot percentages compared to his real self while guys in the 80 3pt rating range without badges, who shot sth like 36 % in real life, will shoot below 30 % in 2k because it's not as easy to get a green shot with them. Makes the whole game an arcady cheesefest about who is able to get more green releases, not who is able to execute better on offense.


I mean, think about it, just a thought game for the sake of showing you what I mean:
You have two players taking the exact same shots with the exact same rating, no defender around, so basically same shot quality.

Player A shoots 40 % on non-green threes and does not get a single green release. He will hit 4 out of 10 shots, resulting in 12 points on 4/10 shooting (40 %)

Player B shoots 40 % on non-green threes and hits 3 green shots. He will hit these 3 shots AND additionally 40 % of the other 7 shots, resulting in 17.4 points on 5.8/10 shooting (58 %).


So both players took EXACTLY the same shots, but player b shot 18 % better, because he is able to get green releases? This completely ****s up the competitiveness of the game. And I know from my experience in our online leagues that there are guys that green basically every 3rd 3 pointer while there are others that don't hit a single green in a whole 40 minute game.....

Your last sentence is me. My experience has been "green or miss", and when I use a team like the Orlando Magic who don't have anything close to a Steph Curry, I'm not greening much of anything.

I can't even really get my MyNBA up and running, because I have to lower the difficulty to Superstar just to have a *chance* at greening / making a shot, but then the AI becomes so incompetent on that level that I can only remain competitive because the AI team is shooting 30% from the field.

I'm not a fan of the shot meter, but I do like having an element of player control, so I don't like Real Player % either. It used to feel right back in the days when your chances of making the shot were determined by your timing, the better your timing, the higher chance of going in, but there was no green perfect timing.

Now, you either green your shot, or you miss, and in the current state of the game, the only way I can score is literally off of dunks or free throws, that's it. Even if I can get a player open for a shot (very rare on Hall Of Fame), it won't go in because I can't green it.

[VictorMG]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Your last sentence is me. My experience has been "green or miss", and when I use a team like the Orlando Magic who don't have anything close to a Steph Curry, I'm not greening much of anything.

I can't even really get my MyNBA up and running, because I have to lower the difficulty to Superstar just to have a *chance* at greening / making a shot, but then the AI becomes so incompetent on that level that I can only remain competitive because the AI team is shooting 30% from the field.

I'm not a fan of the shot meter, but I do like having an element of player control, so I don't like Real Player % either. It used to feel right back in the days when your chances of making the shot were determined by your timing, the better your timing, the higher chance of going in, but there was no green perfect timing.

Now, you either green your shot, or you miss, and in the current state of the game, the only way I can score is literally off of dunks or free throws, that's it. Even if I can get a player open for a shot (very rare on Hall Of Fame), it won't go in because I can't green it.

Why don't you just increase the user Shot Success sliders?

[xCoachDx]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

You can turn off the visual of a green effect. If you have shot feedback on, it will still show as “excellent” release but you don’t see the green light when the ball is released. It’s the only way to go for offline play IMO.

[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

You can turn off the visual of a green effect. If you have shot feedback on, it will still show as “excellent” release but you don’t see the green light when the ball is released. It’s the only way to go for offline play IMO.

that does not change the fact, that the whole shooting system is imbalanced because of the mechanics that greens go in at 100 % while every other shot does barely go in.

[xCoachDx]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

that does not change the fact, that the whole shooting system is imbalanced because of the mechanics that greens go in at 100 % while every other shot does barely go in.

The idea of greens is misleading.

Greens are not 100% a timing thing. There are other factors that play into it too. The green feedback is basically just a visual of “this shot is going in.” It’s the equivalent of a player releasing a shot that is about to be a swish.

If they didn’t have an immediate green feedback, but the shooting was exactly the same as it is now, would we having the conversation that shooting is unbalanced?

[Breakstarter]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

Greens are are a necessary evil...
They bring balance ....to all those who would be new born paint mashers...the green release is the counter to those with less skill.

Greens are easy this year....im not one to say it...ill prove it

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[jk31]

Re: 2K desperately needs to move away from guaranteed makes/greens

The idea of greens is misleading.

Greens are not 100% a timing thing. There are other factors that play into it too. The green feedback is basically just a visual of “this shot is going in.” It’s the equivalent of a player releasing a shot that is about to be a swish.

If they didn’t have an immediate green feedback, but the shooting was exactly the same as it is now, would we having the conversation that shooting is unbalanced?

Yes, because shooters in the 75-80 range without badges shoot nowhere near as good as in real life and good shooters with badges shoot far better than their real life counterpart.