Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

It's interesting hearing Player vs CPU feedback on the AI because it sounds like it differs significantly from the CPU vs CPU stuff I'm seeing, even though I feel like the AI should play the same in either case. I did have to juice offense after the updates but overall my sliders are still slightly favored to defense, across a wide array of sliders from shot successes to defensive awareness and contest strength, and the AI has no issue shooting 40-50% every game. The big exception was 3pt of course where the slider is at 72 lol. Potentially this is because player controlled defense is just that much better I guess?

Its also going to vary greatly from team to team, player to player due to tendencies, coach settings, and playbooks. Not only at the player level but what the tendencies are at the slider level is going to have a major impact as well.

One example one of my criticisms of the AI Pacers was how often Curry was chilling behind the 3 pt line. It could be due to the playbook the team was using. Take a current day example with Luka. He likes to post up and the Maverick playbook has plays specifically designed for him to do that. If you put Luka on another team he will still have post up as a play type, but if he is on a team that didn't previously have plays designed for the guard to post up Luka may end up using post up plays that are designed for bigs, and in those cases you are basically swapping the PG and PF/C in the play, so you could end up seeing a C standing where the pg typically is.

Thats what I'm thinking is happening. Pacers playbook was probably designed for Reggie Miller at the 2, but they have Wade at the 2 instead. Completely different type of player. I'm thinking Wade is using iso plays designed for Jermaine O'Neal and its causing some weirdness.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Yes it has and it finally feels like launch day for me and im finally in love with this game again on default. Please for the love of god don't change anything LOL.

To add to this im on HOF default and im finally seeing the CPU hit 3pt shots. But i do find the CPU plays better if i play better. It's almost like its scripted to stay within range.

CPU playing better if we do definitely might be the case. Although at the same time I do see blowouts on either end a lot. But the AI has always definitely been scripted. I know some games it will have me missing everything and sometimes the opposite.

As for FT, before patch at maxed out foul sliders I definitely saw too many fouls which is a good thing. I’m still seeing a good amount on my side at standard HoF foul sliders. Cpu going to the line does appear to have lessened but it’s hit or miss sometimes they’re getting to the line at a decent pace. Sometimes not, especially post patch.

[cch99]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Some thing else I’m noticing is that it seems like the CPU is scoring a lot more points in the paint then before the update/patch


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[H2UKNOW]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Looks like we’re back in motion! CPU offense is smart and aggressive. Jump shot contest may still be a little strong, but that’s a quick slider fix.

[H2UKNOW]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Some thing else I’m noticing is that it seems like the CPU is scoring a lot more points in the paint then before the update/patch


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I think it’s good now. I couldn’t even get Demar to pull up for a midrange jumper, but in my last sim he was taking and knocking them down with a hand in his face.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Looks like we’re back in motion! CPU offense is smart and aggressive. Jump shot contest may still be a little strong, but that’s a quick slider fix.

I dunno. I had cpu shooting sliders (close/mid/3) at 56 and was playing against the KD/Kyrie/Kidd all time Nets. They were playing awful. I was gonna come here and say the game is officially ruined, it was absolutely awful and the AI was supremely stupid. Then I turned their sliders to 60 and they were playing very good. Too good. So I turned them to 58 as a middle ground and had an excellent game.

So the good news is this is mostly a fixable issue it seeks. I even saw less cheese steals in passing lanes. The bad news is the real problem now is inconsistency. When is the game running good? Or bad? Finding a slider sweet spot is key. I feel like right now my cpu sliders are either over or under corrected depending on whether AI decides the CPU is hot.

Either way. I’m gonna try them at 58 and see if that sticks as a good middle ground. But after a terrible first half I definitely had a good game in the second half after raising cpu sliders.

[NYJin2011tm]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

I dunno. I had cpu shooting sliders (close/mid/3) at 56 and was playing against the KD/Kyrie/Kidd all time Nets. They were playing awful. I was gonna come here and say the game is officially ruined, it was absolutely awful and the AI was supremely stupid. Then I turned their sliders to 60 and they were playing very good. Too good. So I turned them to 58 as a middle ground and had an excellent game.

So the good news is this is mostly a fixable issue it seeks. I even saw less cheese steals in passing lanes. The bad news is the real problem now is inconsistency. When is the game running good? Or bad? Finding a slider sweet spot is key. I feel like right now my cpu sliders are either over or under corrected depending on whether AI decides the CPU is hot.

Either way. I’m gonna try them at 58 and see if that sticks as a good middle ground. But after a terrible first half I definitely had a good game in the second half after raising cpu sliders.

Almost same. I had one game 83 Lakers(me) vs Jazz with CPU shooting sliders at 65 and they played good shooting 45% and scoring 110 points. So I start next game vs Clippers and with shooting sliders still at 65 they shot 27% in the first half. I bumped them to 68 and they played much better in the second half shooting in the 40s%.

[VDusen04]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

One issue that's felt more noticeably to me post-patch is the defense's psychic reaction to user dribble moves. I think I've figured out what's going on though: the CPU is reacting to my stick input, not what's happening on the floor.



Above, the defender seems perfectly content not reacting to anything until suddenly and randomly deciding to drop back, anticipating my drive based off of nothing my ballhandler was actually doing on screen (it was just two stagnant dribble moves to the left and then back to the right).

On my controller though, I was pushing my left-analog to the right in hopes of catching the defense flat footed. It's just, my player wouldn't actually attack that gap until the dribble move slowly played out. By then, since the defender was reading my stick input and not what was happening on screen, he'd already dropped back, knowing my player was going to try to make that move before there was any hint on screen.

I'm sure, to some degree, that's exactly how games are supposed to be programmed. But the delay in input (my player not going anywhere until animations play out), create a vision of psychic defenders knowing what I'm going to do before I do, thus not allowing me to attack gaps or weaknesses as realistically.

[NYJin2011tm]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

I just started a 2002 ERA with the Knicks on default Superstar. First game vs Mavs and I lost 112-103 with Mavs shooting 47%. This game is so inconsistently weird. It seems like ratings and/or badges are too strong and effective in the game.

[FixEverything2k]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

One issue that's felt more noticeably to me post-patch is the defense's psychic reaction to user dribble moves. I think I've figured out what's going on though: the CPU is reacting to my stick input, not what's happening on the floor.



Above, the defender seems perfectly content not reacting to anything until suddenly and randomly deciding to drop back, anticipating my drive based off of nothing my ballhandler was actually doing on screen (it was just two stagnant dribble moves to the left and then back to the right).

On my controller though, I was pushing my left-analog to the right in hopes of catching the defense flat footed. It's just, my player wouldn't actually attack that gap until the dribble move slowly played out. By then, since the defender was reading my stick input and not what was happening on screen, he'd already dropped back, knowing my player was going to try to make that move before there was any hint on screen.

I'm sure, to some degree, that's exactly how games are supposed to be programmed. But the delay in input (my player not going anywhere until animations play out), create a vision of psychic defenders knowing what I'm going to do before I do, thus not allowing me to attack gaps or weaknesses as realistically.

They for sure whether intended or not react to button inputs and not what’s going on on the floor.

Sometimes it feels like it’s hidden well, but when they have these slow and sluggish size up and sometimes momentum shot animations, it becomes more obvious.

I wonder how hard it would be to give the CPU like a vision cone, and the reaction speed could be passed on their defence ratings. Basketball offense consists of motion misdirection and momentum so these 3 should be worked on.


I think vs humans with latency is the only reason for these obviously .7 and sometimes .5 speed animations that are sprinkled throughout, but against cpu who is reading your controller it’s unrealistic.

[sirdez]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Some thing else I’m noticing is that it seems like the CPU is scoring a lot more points in the paint then before the update/patch


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

For me nearly every CPU possession ends up with a player holding it on the perimeter, getting a screen and going to the basket. The only real variation to this is if they run a floppy to get a three or a cut to the basket, but it's become a very boring game in terms of the offense the CPU runs.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

For me nearly every CPU possession ends up with a player holding it on the perimeter, getting a screen and going to the basket. The only real variation to this is if they run a floppy to get a three or a cut to the basket, but it's become a very boring game in terms of the offense the CPU runs.

But thats the modern day NBA lol

[VDusen04]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

They for sure whether intended or not react to button inputs and not what’s going on on the floor.

Sometimes it feels like it’s hidden well, but when they have these slow and sluggish size up and sometimes momentum shot animations, it becomes more obvious.

I wonder how hard it would be to give the CPU like a vision cone, and the reaction speed could be passed on their defence ratings. Basketball offense consists of motion misdirection and momentum so these 3 should be worked on.


I think vs humans with latency is the only reason for these obviously .7 and sometimes .5 speed animations that are sprinkled throughout, but against cpu who is reading your controller it’s unrealistic.

Agreed on all accounts.

After finishing another game—against the lowly '87 Spurs—the best way I can put it right now is that my offense feels confined. I can win and I can score... but only as long as a utilize the few ways 2K currently allows me to succeed.

What worked:

-Using Xavier McDaniel, Tom Chambers, and Maurice Lucas to back weaker defenders down until they had point blank shots.

-Running screens until I could get an open mid-range jumper, which I can hit because I upped the sliders.

-The canned animation escape dribble jumpers (holding down a shoulder button and pushing the shot stick in a prescribed direction). These seem to push my player into an "open" zone which elevates chances of middie success.

What doesn't work:

-Triple threat: 2K's had a love-hate relationship with triple threat moves for years. For as long as I can remember, they seem to bounce between allowing the jab-and-go to be a viable means of securing an advantage and the jabs basically serving no purpose whatsoever (as they do now).

In fact, it seems jabs are most often disadvantageous for me right now because the only thing it usually does is draw the defender in closer, which would be good news in real basketball because they'd be more susceptible to a blow by, but that doesn't happen in 2K.

-One-on-one dribble moves with any non-dribble gods: Isiah Thomas was amazing to use when the game was initially released. He felt slippery, elusive, dangerous. Now, his face up dribble moves usually lead to CPU defenders anticipating his every change of direction. And that's for Isiah Thomas. If someone like Nate McMillain had any kind of interest in losing a defender with a live dribble in the half court, forget about it.

-Fast Breaks: I can't even successfully cherry pick at this point. The defense always retreats, they always wall up, and they always impede forward movement. My only hope last game came when the CPU gambled on a steal and Tom Chambers slipped behind for a reverse dunk. Otherwise, it's nada in the open floor unless I pick off the point guard at the top of the key.

-Winning hip rides: Pre-patch, some body contact was okay because there was still a chance of slipping past said contact as an offensive player. Doesn't happen anymore. The only two outcomes in the majority of situations are now either: Stonewalled or Heavily Contested.

Having so many offensive options inaccessible really, really dampens the fun of the game. I'm heading back to the drawing board to mess with body-up sensitivity and more, but I despise the fact that I'm seeing shades of 2K22 pop up post-patch.

As a final aside, is there no free throw slider? The CPU has been awful at free throws post-patch and I can't find where to fix it. They shot 38 percent from the line against me last game.

[sirdez]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

But thats the modern day NBA lol

To an extent, sure. Would just like to see a little more fluidity and variety in when and where the screens are set. Right now it feels like the CPU just works the ball to a player on the perimeter early in the shot clock, who then just holds it in one spot until the last 5-6 seconds of the shot clock, then calls a screen and drives.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Is it me or did the CPU get WAY better

Almost same. I had one game 83 Lakers(me) vs Jazz with CPU shooting sliders at 65 and they played good shooting 45% and scoring 110 points. So I start next game vs Clippers and with shooting sliders still at 65 they shot 27% in the first half. I bumped them to 68 and they played much better in the second half shooting in the 40s%.

This is exactly the problem now. Sliders are inconsistent. One night what works the next night it’s garbage. The cpu is inherently broken is the issue. And it’s not just “good and bad games” variance. Before the patch there would be games sheee cpu shot 55% and others where they’d shoot 38% but they didn’t feel “dumb” or “broken.” It was just bad games. Now it’s very clear something is broken. When they’re off, they play like an idiotic low skill pickup game team.

They made the game 2K22 basically, some of the better aspects from 23 are still there (drawing user fouls, help defense perhaps, etc.), but clearly whatever parameters 2K needs to meet for online play result in needing their games to play like 2K22. They advertised a lot of smarter and alive AI advancements which were true and effective. Then they nerfed them.