NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

It's a great game, and they even did a big roster update.

But even on that big roster update, outside of the rookies being missing which is expected, they are still missing some basic players. Hard to play a game that can't even get the correct players in the game. If they fixed this, this would be my go to game.

But even being my go-to-game, again, their marketing is terrible. They wouldn't even need to pay a lot of money, simply pay one person to get involved in forums, to post exciting articles, to post ratings and screenshots, to hype the game, etc. But they never hype this game even 10% as much as 2k, and with all the FREE marketing 2k gets, simply because NBA players love it, it's hard to beat that. And as annoyed as I get with seeing 200 screenshots of NBA players every year, it's a heck of a way for them to market.

Development Costs + Marketing to reach Mainstream > NBA Live Sales

There's really no need to dig the financial hole deeper than what's necessary. The game sold for $5 at one point, and it still didn't sell that many digital copies. Basketball fans know that the game exist, and they would have bought it in the millions if they thought it was worth buying. Hype and exposure doesn't get any better than firing up your console and seeing that an "EA Sale" is going on.

Honestly, to imply that it merely takes a dedicated employee to give lip service for the game is rather insulting to any consumer. You would need to have a low opinion of a consumer's buying IQ if you think that's all it takes to push units.

[Junior Moe]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

Development Costs + Marketing to reach Mainstream > NBA Live Sales

There's really no need to dig the financial hole deeper than what's necessary. The game sold for $5 at one point, and it still didn't sell that many digital copies. Basketball fans know that the game exist, and they would have bought it in the millions if they thought it was worth buying. Hype and exposure doesn't get any better than firing up your console and seeing that an "EA Sale" is going on.

Honestly, to imply that it merely takes a dedicated employee to give lip service for the game is rather insulting to any consumer. You would need to have a low opinion of a consumer's buying IQ if you think that's all it takes to push units.

At the end of the day the product has to sell itself. Live has had more than enough time and opportunity to reestablish itself. This gen is almost over. People have played the demo.



People have bought Live for cheap. It was the top selling game in January one year when it was 5 bucks. The game has undoubtedly improved. Reading online you'd swear that there's some clamoring for an alternative basketball game. Yet and still Live sales remain flat or not improving at all. People love to compare Live to 2K but at its core, 2K is a deep and good game. It's not perfect. It has issues. But its a good game. IMO, Live isn't a good game. Forget basketball, I'm strictly speaking about something I would want to play. I mean, it's alright. But I can just as easily forget about it like I do dozens of other games a year. That's why I think its languishing. Plus, there are so many ways to play good games now for cheap. Live isn't competing with 2K; its competing with every other mid tier Ok game out here now.



I see people here lobbying for folks to "give Live a try". I have seen this since the series returned. People have given it a try. It just isn't resonating. That's all on EA and the devs.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

At the end of the day the product has to sell itself. Live has had more than enough time and opportunity to reestablish itself. This gen is almost over. People have played the demo.



People have bought Live for cheap. It was the top selling game in January one year when it was 5 bucks. The game has undoubtedly improved. Reading online you'd swear that there's some clamoring for an alternative basketball game. Yet and still Live sales remain flat or not improving at all. People love to compare Live to 2K but at its core, 2K is a deep and good game. It's not perfect. It has issues. But its a good game. IMO, Live isn't a good game. Forget basketball, I'm strictly speaking about something I would want to play. I mean, it's alright. But I can just as easily forget about it like I do dozens of other games a year. That's why I think its languishing. Plus, there are so many ways to play good games now for cheap. Live isn't competing with 2K; its competing with every other mid tier Ok game out here now.



I see people here lobbying for folks to "give Live a try". I have seen this since the series returned. People have given it a try. It just isn't resonating. That's all on EA and the devs.

100% agree. For the record, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Live, because surprisedly I have bought the last 3 Lives when it goes on sale dirt cheap. For me, I just like how Live keeps the game of basketball so freaking simple when I play H2H online. I absolutely LOVE that the game's results/actions are more organic than NBA 2K. Beyond that...Live absolutely can't beat 2K's gameplay/control (using the word control very loosely, lol) depth and signature player styles/animations. Live is just one of those "relaxing" games when I want to play basketball, but nothing super intense. That's not a bad thing by no means, but that makes it an uphill battle for Live. Hell...NBA 2K's H2H online has the Classic and All-Time teams. That little nugget alone will keep me with NBA 2K, but I'm always willing to give Live a chance.

[Junior Moe]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

100% agree. For the record, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Live, because surprisedly I have bought the last 3 Lives when it goes on sale dirt cheap. For me, I just like how Live keeps the game of basketball so freaking simple when I play H2H online. I absolutely LOVE that the game's results/actions are more organic than NBA 2K. Beyond that...Live absolutely can't beat 2K's gameplay/control (using the word control very loosely, lol) depth and signature player styles/animations. Live is just one of those "relaxing" games when I want to play basketball, but nothing super intense. That's not a bad thing by no means, but that makes it an uphill battle for Live. Hell...NBA 2K's H2H online has the Classic and All-Time teams. That little nugget alone will keep me with NBA 2K, but I'm always willing to give Live a chance.

Same here. I always grab Live for cheap. I enjoy it for what its worth. I have never been compelled to buy Live at release or anything, though. I preorder 2K and Gears5 and GOW and RDR2. I cant wait to play those games. Live just isn't in that class. Live is a fun pick up and play game. It's like Super Mega Baseball for me, fun in spurts, bit nothing I can play for extended periods. The NBA Live team taking a different approach, whatever that means, may not be a bad thing. The current course just isn't getting it done. I think they should lean into the online stuff and go full on NBA Street Vol 3. They could blend the sim elements in with the arcade over the top fun.

[illwill10]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

At the end of the day the product has to sell itself. Live has had more than enough time and opportunity to reestablish itself. This gen is almost over. People have played the demo.



People have bought Live for cheap. It was the top selling game in January one year when it was 5 bucks. The game has undoubtedly improved. Reading online you'd swear that there's some clamoring for an alternative basketball game. Yet and still Live sales remain flat or not improving at all. People love to compare Live to 2K but at its core, 2K is a deep and good game. It's not perfect. It has issues. But its a good game. IMO, Live isn't a good game. Forget basketball, I'm strictly speaking about something I would want to play. I mean, it's alright. But I can just as easily forget about it like I do dozens of other games a year. That's why I think its languishing. Plus, there are so many ways to play good games now for cheap. Live isn't competing with 2K; its competing with every other mid tier Ok game out here now.



I see people here lobbying for folks to "give Live a try". I have seen this since the series returned. People have given it a try. It just isn't resonating. That's all on EA and the devs.

I agree. I want Live to succeed. But they had the past decade to get their ship in order. Especially on the years they canceled or delay. Cancelled 13 and 14 was still regarded as a terrible game. There has been a lot of patient with their games, but at some point they have to get there. I know there have been resource issues especially when they had to share Madden developers to help them get back on track.
I think a lot of it was their approach. Mike Wang had an interview where he said when he worked there, their main focus was "How do we beat 2k". Once you have that mindset, you already failed. The main focus should always be "How can we can better and innovative each year". Once you become more concern about a competitor over improving yourself, you are already in a losing battle.

[inkcil]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

Ksuttonjr76 just touched on the main thing Live had going for it...it feels "organic."

I've seen guys dribble the ball off their foot, trip and fall...little funny random organic things that could actually happen in real life. It's like the characters make human mistakes sometimes.

I also like the way it "feels" when you dunk.

Last thing is fast breaks...I've actually seen 3-2 or 3-1 fast breaks in the game. Again, just like in real life, every defender does not Sprint back full speed on D the first split nano-second that the ball is turned over.

[golfingbuffalo]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

I think it means one of four things:

1.) EA is focusing on the Online leagues (Live's strength) and will abandon NBA season mode, and go with a different monetization option.
2.) EA has decided to go the arcade route with a new NBA Jam / NBA street instead.
3.) EA is focusing on Nintendo Switch which the
Live developers talked about back in 2017. Possibly the first EA sport title to be Cross play with Xbox? Maybe Live drops the annual editions and is continuously updated model?
4.) Cancelation of NBA Live.

**One thing to consider and research, Would the NBA allow EA to alter the terms of the agreement and allow Live to go F2P, while 2k still is having to pay and charge full price for a NBA product?**.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

Ksuttonjr76 just touched on the main thing Live had going for it...it feels "organic."

I've seen guys dribble the ball off their foot, trip and fall...little funny random organic things that could actually happen in real life. It's like the characters make human mistakes sometimes.

I also like the way it "feels" when you dunk.

Last thing is fast breaks...I've actually seen 3-2 or 3-1 fast breaks in the game. Again, just like in real life, every defender does not Sprint back full speed on D the first split nano-second that the ball is turned over.

To be fair, I don't play Live nearly as much I play NBA 2K. It could be a case that I merely haven't gotten a chance to see patterns develop. Having said that...I wish that I could take out their programming/algorithms for cause and effect actions and drop that into NBA 2K. In Live, a shot is a shot, a contest is a contest, a steal is a steal, a block is a block, and a rebound is rebound. It's that damn simple. Live doesn't have all these stupid instances where the game "cheats" to force a particular outcome like when a player shoots, but the shot is blocked. However, the game makes the ball take a odd trajectory like the block never happened, and the shooter is still able to make the shot.

[Kayotick]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

How I feel regarding NBA Live is that I completely love the streetball aspect of the game but that same fun factor never translated over to my NBA season because it just never felt the same. I am not sure if it was a lack of depth in the franchise mode, or a lack of the game just not translating well into a more SIM style of play when it comes to your season. Because let's be honest here: Streetball and NBA are two different styles of gameplay.

If they do decide to scrap NBA Live one thing that I think would make for an awesome game experience would be to take everything you already have in place for the streets and expand on this mode to include seasons, tourneys, more events, and more innovation. I am not saying turn it into NBA Street from back in the day but continue building on what you already have for this mode which is fantastic.

The bottom line for me: Live Street Mode is awesome but the actual NBA Season/Franchise portion of the game not so much.

[lon515]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

I think eas problem is that they can only do gameplay well. I think it is potentially Sim, but stuff like deep modes, deep coaching, animations etc all contribute to what you believe Sim is. That's what they sucked at, but I've never felt any more arcade on live than any other game, when I'm immersed and going vs people online. Sure weird stuff happens but it happens in every game.



Live has some issues but they aren't far from sim. Depth, however... But depth actually inhibits balance if you focus on that first. You end up with too much stuff that there's no way to balance well.



-Smak

I have to disagree with you here. I bought live 18,19, (also16 and 10 lol.) I'm one of the few who enjoy playing live over 2k. Live is fun to me because the ONE mode reminds me of NBA street.

However the game behaves nothing like a sim. No matter how contested a layup is it will go in and that's true where ever you shoot, contests don't matter it you get a good release it will go in. 2k rewards you for playing good defense.

I do agree with you on the modes though. The lack of depth also kills the sim hopes for the game, but nothing else really makes the game a sim either, I'd wish they just go full blown arcade cause they can't compete with 2k at a sim style game, we have 10+ years of evidence.

[zrohman]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

I have to disagree with you here. I bought live 18,19, (also16 and 10 lol.) I'm one of the few who enjoy playing live over 2k. Live is fun to me because the ONE mode reminds me of NBA street.

However the game behaves nothing like a sim. No matter how contested a layup is it will go in and that's true where ever you shoot, contests don't matter it you get a good release it will go in. 2k rewards you for playing good defense.

I do agree with you on the modes though. The lack of depth also kills the sim hopes for the game, but nothing else really makes the game a sim either, I'd wish they just go full blown arcade cause they can't compete with 2k at a sim style game, we have 10+ years of evidence.

Get outta here.

In 2k, you can stand there dribbling and do nothing, the defender can press the button to reach for the ball, they can touch the ball only, and be called for a reach.

In 2k, you can be rewarded for good defense, which is actually NOT sim. If you watch the NBA, many times good defense is played and it still goes in. Someone like Harden can go into iso, put a dribble move on, and get JUST ENOUGH space to get a shot, but be heavily contested, and it can still go in.

Sometimes open shots are missed, etc.

I know this is the case for 2k too... But I've seen people miss several layups in online play, based on rating, they don't all go in, it is definitely chance.

Live used to have them all go in, now they only MOSTLY go in if you have a really good rating.

You are entitled to believe Live gameplay is less sim. But I would challenge you and agree that the reason why people believe it is less sim is because there isn't any depth with coaching options or other things. Also, with such limited editing options and other gameplay modes people can feel the gameplay is lesser simply based on that too.

[Smallville102001]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

Live 11, 13, and 17 were cancelled. So having 3 games cancelled within 7 years isn't good for business. But it does show EA has been patient.
For me, I think next generation will have a big impact. If it was any other year, I think they could delay this year and slightly delay next year. But with next generation coming out, it surely will have an impact. Usually sports release a next gen version at console launch, even if it is just stripped down game to show off the power of next gen graphics. I don't think Live can even focus on that when they are still trying to get the current gen down pact.

Right and before this thread I had complete forgotten that 17 was also cancelled. So yeah if 20 is cancelled that would be the 4th time in just the last 10 years.

[lareka]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

Get outta here.

In 2k, you can stand there dribbling and do nothing, the defender can press the button to reach for the ball, they can touch the ball only, and be called for a reach.

In 2k, you can be rewarded for good defense, which is actually NOT sim. If you watch the NBA, many times good defense is played and it still goes in. Someone like Harden can go into iso, put a dribble move on, and get JUST ENOUGH space to get a shot, but be heavily contested, and it can still go in.

Sometimes open shots are missed, etc.

I know this is the case for 2k too... But I've seen people miss several layups in online play, based on rating, they don't all go in, it is definitely chance.

Live used to have them all go in, now they only MOSTLY go in if you have a really good rating.

You are entitled to believe Live gameplay is less sim. But I would challenge you and agree that the reason why people believe it is less sim is because there isn't any depth with coaching options or other things. Also, with such limited editing options and other gameplay modes people can feel the gameplay is lesser simply based on that too.

Yeah you are right and if you adjust the sliders in Live, you can turn it into a sim, seems like that guy is playing with default sliders and playing on low difficulty level, commenting on that...

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

I feel like we're going to get a digital release with online-only gameplay. That's my prediction. No franchise or offline anything.

[Daddy123]

Re: NBA Live 20 Delayed Until Late 2019 as Team Plans a Different Approach

They focused entirely too much on the street thing compared to the actual NBA stuff.

If they make the game 20-30 dollars and just sell that mode, they would do pretty well. They do a good job of bringing content, celebrities and etc in those events.

Their NBA side though has been bad. People would be willing to excuse the not great gameplay if they worked on the modes but they didn't. Franchise Mode is not good, no allstar weekend, The One was pretty much copied and pasted from last year. I liked their non stories but they could change it a little and they didn't.

It just felt like they only cared about the online street mode.

There is no reason for people to pay $60 for that.