KOBE STILL "SELFISH!?"...

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  • DueceDiggla
    MVP
    • Aug 2002
    • 4915

    #46
    Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    triple-double the other night in an exhibiton game with the Magic Johnson All-Stars. Magic could start in the NBA right now

    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



    Oh boy

    Comment

    • Whaaaazuuuuup
      MVP
      • Jul 2002
      • 3620

      #47
      Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
      I agree about the Kobe. Though Phil Jackson has won 6 NBA Titles without Shaq, I don't know if you just started watching basketball, but he is one of, if not, the best coach ever.

      Yes he had MJ, but Shaq and Kobe, before Phil, couldn't win [censored], same goes for MJ.


      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      don't get it twisted. JORDAN made it to two Eastern Conf. Finals and was sent home by the Pistons both times. Detroit had a much better team those years. teams today are one and out. The Pacers get to the finals in 2000, no return. the 6er's in2001, no return. now let's see if the Nets are foreal.

      MJ losing to the Pistons made him a better player as well as PiP and Grant. Phil had something to do with that. but it;s all on the players to want to become better. Kobe's team is too good for him to average 30 a game. if MJ wouldn't played on a team this well he would have averaged 25-27 as well. but i believe he would've accepted it and found other ways to become the best ever.

      Kobe showed me something i thought i'd NEVER see from a NBA basketball. sacrifice a win to get an assist. watching the game last night, even the annoucers were baffled to why Kobe had a mis-match with Coles on him and instead of taking advantage on it, he passed the ball off to Walker (who sucks!) foor a 20 ft jumper on the base line! BRICK!

      MJ truely became the best after his return to the game in 93' when his athletic ability was fading but his gaming skills amazing. he became a more complete player and more dangerous as he got older.

      right now, MJ is taking a back seat to allow for youth development. he'll be starting by DEC. because Russell truely sucks! he's really causing them games right now, and MJ sees that.

      MAGIC IS a great player. he'd still school guys now a days. defensively, he'd get killed...
      I am glad I got the Buell- I love riding it, I love the oddball looks I get on the road- I love people asking "What IS that thing?" I love flying into a corner WAY too hot, scared spitless and sure I'll never hold it at this speed- and hearing the bike whisper "Sissy!"...

      Comment

      • rheller
        Pro
        • Jul 2002
        • 880

        #48
        Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

        Is Kobe "Selfish?" I don't think so. I think he's doing everything he can to help his team win. Kobe leads by example on the court and by his determination to win. Is he a vocal leader? I'm not sure, I'm not in the locker room. But I can also see why he wouldn't be that vocal. Isn't Kobe like 24 years old? Becoming a leader in the locker room takes more than just scoring points. I really believe senority, personality, and experience play a part too! There are a lot of guys on the Lakers that are more experienced (maybe not more skilled) in the game of basketball than Kobe.

        Comparing Kidd to Kobe is like comparing apples and oranges. They play different positions and play different roles for thier respective teams. The comparison of Kobe and T-Mac is legitimate. Plug either guy into the Laker squad and I think the Laker's still win the last 3 championships. I must admit T-Mac gets some good "numbers", but there are other things that factor into his "numbers." Things like being the number one option on his team and the kind of offense that the Magic run are all factors that help T-Mac get the numbers he gets. (There is no doubt that his ability plays into it as well!)

        As I've read through these posts I've read a lot of "If" statements:

        If Shaq was 285, If the Lakers didn't have Shaq, ect ect. I guess we could use "If" with a lot of things. But the fact remains that the Laker's won the last three championships as a "team." Yes Kobe and Shaq play big roles in thier team, but you have to have superstars on Championship teams.

        Comment

        • Will
          MVP
          • Jul 2002
          • 717

          #49
          Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

          Don't compare Shaq to Sabonis. Shaq is much, much, much more powerful and gets many, many, many more calls. That is not debateable. That is the plain truth. now, whether or not that factored into their winning championships is debateable, but that's not the point I'm making right now. I'm just establishing that Shaq is bigger and more powerful than anyone else, and is given Jordan-esque privledges with the rules.

          With that being established, Shaq is this generations George Mikan and Wilt Chamberlain. He's just bigger than everyone else. Seriously. Instead of trying to draw me into rhetoric, tell me if Shaq's jump hook frmo outside of 5 freaking feet could even compete with anyone else's. If I had to pick Shaq or Rasho Nesterovic to shoot a 10 foot baby hook, I'd pick Rasho.

          Or talk about Shaq's free throws. That's important for someone who's constantly on the line, right? Or how about his jumper? Err, um, ignore that. Can't debate what's not there.

          Shaq is bigger than everyone. That is the only reason Mikan was any good. Have you ever seen him play? He was average, except he was much bigger than everyone else. Same with Chamberlain, but to a lesser extent.


          Yes, scoring is the objective of basketball, but your point ends there. Every single thing I listed factors into scoring. Every single thing. Shooting a jumper is just one way of helping your team get points. It's not the only way, and in no way does it determine the best player solely. I mean, we might as well nominate Steve Kerr then, right? Sorry, but I couldn't resist to use some intentionally flawed logic. The whole shoe on other foot type deal.


          Winning is a moot argument, because you will just hide behind how Kobe has won, and no one else has. Put Kidd on the Lakers and kobe on the Nets, and I guarantee the Lakers would walk over everyone.

          Let's even back up a little more. What has Kidd done? I don't know, but I thought turning around the worst franchise in the league into a perennial eastern conference contender single handedly counted for something.

          You say you need two superstars to win anything. A great measure of a player is when he doesn't have another superstar. Look at Kidd and Garnett. Give either one of them another top 10 player and imagine the possibilities. In fact, the Lakers are the only team I can think of that has two top 10 players.


          You can say Kobe is the best player, but give me actual reasons why.

          Comment

          • Jsupastar
            Rookie
            • Oct 2002
            • 91

            #50
            Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

            Magic was in no way better that Michael Jordan. Magic was a great player but an one-dimesional player. Magic couldn't guard anybody. He was the best penetrator I've seen and a great clutch player. But then again so is Michael Jordan. As far as Magic having a triple double in an exhibition game, that's not relevant to how he'll perform in today's NBA. He couldn't even handle the 1996 Lakers when he came back for a brief run. What makes you think he wouldn't be coming off the bench if he played today? The only reason Mike is coming off he bench is for health reasons. I'll guarantee you he won't be coming off the bench for long.

            Comment

            • **DONOTDELETE**
              Hall Of Fame
              • Oct 2025
              • 19598

              #51
              Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

              Will,

              I think you're one of the very few people who actually think that Kidd is better than Kobe. If you'd rather have J.Kidd than Kobe Bryant then that's your business. I'm done arguing because i'm obviously not gonna convince you of anything. So we'll just have to wait about 12 or so years until Kobe retires with about 10 rings as the greatest player ever, then we'll talk about him vs. Kidd.

              Comment

              • Will
                MVP
                • Jul 2002
                • 717

                #52
                Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                If I had to make a team, and I had to choose between Kidd and Kobe, I'd choose Kidd in a heartbeat.

                If you want to hide behind anymore stuff, go for it. I'd love for you to give me actual reasons why Kobe is better besides he's a better shooter, which I've already conceded.

                Comment

                • HatTrick
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 105

                  #53
                  Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                  Kobe wants the ball at the end of the game, and he has proven many times that he can hit the clutch shot. This is something that Jason Kidd hasn't done, and probably won't ever do because he is a horrible shooter.

                  If Kidd was on the Lakers instead of Kobe, they might not have even gotten past the Spurs, particularly because there wouldn't have been anyone to take the big shots. Horry, Fox, and Fisher can do it every now and then, but not enough to carry a team through the playoffs.

                  Comment

                  • **DONOTDELETE**
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Oct 2025
                    • 19598

                    #54
                    Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                    Kobe is better than Kidd because he is a better shooter and a MUCH better scorer over all. He is more physically talented and gifted(taller, quicker, better hops, longer arms etc.). He is a much better defensive player than Kidd. As he has shown he can rebound just like Kidd, if not better. He could also dish like Kidd if he wanted to (as he has also shown). He require more attention from the defense then Kidd (you don't need to double J.Kidd). ummmm..... i'll let you know if i come up with anything else.

                    Comment

                    • thejake
                      MVP
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 2433

                      #55
                      Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                      i think the reason jason kidd stands out this day and age is that there is no depth in the point guard position. outside of 4 or 5 guys there are no great point guards anymore. whereas at shooting guard you havd kobe, tmac, ai, pierce, carter, and so on. i think a far as rebounding goes its a push. defensively i would give the edge to kobe. he can shut down small guys like iverson and he can play against bigger guys as well. plus he often guards the best swingman on the other team. kobe obviously has a shooting advantage. kidd has the passing advantage but he should because he plays the point. but with 10 seconds left in the game down by one i would rather have the ball in kobe's hands than in kids and for me that is a big time factor. the problem is the lakers role players are not that good. they need two superstars to carry there lack of talent else where. i mean there bench only goes 7 deep when everyone is healthy. they have no one at power forward and a wanna be actor at small forward.
                      My XBOX Gamercard

                      Comment

                      • **DONOTDELETE**
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Oct 2025
                        • 19598

                        #56
                        Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                        Oh yeah, also what HatTrick mentioned. Kobe is pure clutch in the 4th quarter and can single handedly win you a game. What is Kidd gonna do when he has the ball down by 1 with 15 secs to go? Make a great assist!?

                        Comment

                        • thejake
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 2433

                          #57
                          Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                          i would still take tmac in a second though assuming he can stay healthy.
                          My XBOX Gamercard

                          Comment

                          • **DONOTDELETE**
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Oct 2025
                            • 19598

                            #58
                            Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                            TMac vs. Kobe is a judgement call right now, but Kidd should not even be brought into the conversation (nothing against J.Kidd)

                            Comment

                            • Will
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 717

                              #59
                              Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                              I'll give you the clutch thing.

                              As for saying Kobe could pass as well as Kidd if he wanted to, that's laughable.

                              I have a very, very hard time believing Kobe is near Kidd in rebounding and/or defense. Kidd had two more rebounds per game last year, and he's a much smarter defender. He doesn't shut down guys the way Kobe sometimes does, but he rarely lets a guy light him up, which is something kobe is prone to. Plus, Kidd is one of the best help defenders in the league.

                              Kidd is also a better three point shooter than Kobe, which is saying something. She shot a full 70 points better than him last year.

                              Then there's the intangibles. Kobe can't touch Kidd at being a court leader. Kidd is also excellent at controlling the game tempo, which is so important in today's game. Kidd also makes people better, something Kobe has yet to do.

                              You can fall back on how much Kobe has won, but if the two were to switch teams, Kidd would be winning just as much.

                              Comment

                              • TigerKnee
                                Rookie
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 271

                                #60
                                Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

                                Wow! I wonder if MSNBC reads the OS forums...

                                MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team.

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