KOBE STILL "SELFISH!?"...

[ShaKobe]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

I have read most of the posts on this topic, and I have to agree and disagee with some of the things here.

I agree with the fact that Kobe is extremely talented, and is one of the two best players in the L under 7 foot (the other being TMac)

I disagree with the fact that he is still selfish. The reason being is that although he tried to just get numbers the other night, he was trying to get his teammates involved. Granted, he should have taken more shots, but you can't please everyone.

The kid works on his game constantly. He has a great basketball mind, and does what he can to make sure that his team wins. It's not his fault that his teammates couldnt hit anything. He got them some very good open looks. The Cavs were doubling and tripling him at every possession.

Like I said, can't please everyone. Everybody has an opinion on everything.

Oh, and another thing that was brought up earlier, I think that if TMac was playing with Shaq, the Lakers would still win. In fact, I think that the Lakers might win more. Just because of the way that TMac plays. He is totally the team player. Just look at his recent games where he went on 40+ pt craziness. He still had the assists and boards. I think that that would help Shaq so much more. Just my opinion.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

He's the best in the league for at least another week. Then he'll be on the back burner again, when Shaq comes back.

Enjoy it while you have it, Kobe Fans (for as long as Shaq is on the same squad as Kobe, Kobe will be option#2, and never the best in the league.)

He'll calm down and get his 22 ppg, 5 To/g, 8 rebounds, and 6 assists.

It really is too, way too hard to decide if Kobe is selfish. A point, I think, that we'll never have an answer to.

No more dicussion outta me.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
He'll calm down and get his 22 ppg, 5 To/g, 8 rebounds, and 6 assists.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

22ppg?? uh. no.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

His career average is around that, and with Shaquille back in the lineup soon, He'll take more form into his usual numbers shortly.

[ShaKobe]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

His career average is around that, but that's because of his first couple of years. But for the last couple of years, he has averaged at least 25ppg. I think he'll hover around the 26-27ppg mark, with 9rbg and 8apg.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

come on! get serious. his career avg is around that because for the first couple years he came off the bench and in case you haven't noticed, his numbers get better every year.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

Yes, they've gotten a bit better every year, his stats for that matter, in all aspects have gotten better.

Maybe I was off a few numbers.

FOr your self assurance, Ill change my prediction to 26.

You happy NOW?

[Will]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

Wow. so you've conceded that Kidd is a better floor leader and can control the game tempo. At least we're getting somewhere.

Can you concede Kidd is the better rebounder? I mean, without even watching games and just looking at the fact that Kidd averaged 2 more boards a game than Kobe did last year should prove the point.

And it shouldn't even be a questions as to who's a better passer. Again, taking away the subjectivity of actually watching the games, Kidd nearly doubled Kobe's assists last year, and Kidd didn't have a Shaq who he could throw the ball to under the hoop and have it dunked.

Kidd also has a better outside shooting percentage. Kobe is a threat to take you off the dribble, which is something that Kidd has very little of, but again, Kidd shoots better from the outside.

Then there's the other things. It's somewhat debateable I guess as to who's the better defender. Kidd is easily the better hlpe defender, though. He also has much better court vision, which goes nearly hand-in-hand with help defense and passing.

But yeah, I guess all I have is game tempo and leadership.

And I don't understand the Kobe hating comment. Just because I don't think Kobe is the ebst player in the league, believe it or not, does not mean I'm hating on him. I've routinely said he's the second or third best player in the league, just not the best.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

So Will,
Can we just clear something up? Are you going on record as saying Jason Kidd is the best player in the NBA?

[Will]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

Out alert. Out alert. God forbid anyone discuss any actual topics of discussion here.

Yes, I believe Jason Kidd is the best basketball player in the NBA right now. That is my opinion, an opinion I have backed up with numerous points numerous times, which have apparently fallen on deaf ears each and every time. Kidd doesn't have fancy cross overs or a patented fade away, but he brings so much more to the table and helps his team in so many ways that I believe he is the best player in the NBA.

Now, for the record, are you actually going to discuss anything I've said, or are you going to go back to "Jason Kidd the best? You stupid Kobe-*****! Everyone's a Kobe-*****!"

[thejake]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Can you concede Kidd is the better rebounder? I mean, without even watching games and just looking at the fact that Kidd averaged 2 more boards a game than Kobe did last year should prove the point.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
shaq gets a lot of rebounds that could be kobe's

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And it shouldn't even be a questions as to who's a better passer. Again, taking away the subjectivity of actually watching the games, Kidd nearly doubled Kobe's assists last year, and Kidd didn't have a Shaq who he could throw the ball to under the hoop and have it dunked.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
kidd is a pg kobe is a sg. of course he should have more assists.

[Will]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

How often in the NBA does the ball get passed once by the guy that starts the offense and then 2 points are scored quickly enough for the assist? Maybe on the Mavericks you'd see that occasionally, but rarely elsewhere.

Kidd almost always starts the offense for the Nets, but rarely does his first pass lead to a basket. It just doesn't work like that. Instead, the ball keeps going around, back through Kidd, and he uses his court vision to find the open guy.

The same nearly holds true for Kobe. The balls through him on nearly every possession. And with his great dribbling skills and Shaq's soft hands, his penetration should create wide open looks for teammates, most of all Shaq. Because he's such a great scoring threat, that should open up so much for him in terms of assists.

As for rebounds:

Shaq in 36 minutes per game averaged 10.7 rebounds per game last year. Todd MacCulloch and Jason Collins in a combined 42 minutes averaged 10.0 rebounds per game. Not a huge difference there.

Plus, Kidd plays farther from the hoop than Kobe does, because of Kidd's lack of the aforemention great penetration and the fact that he runs the offense as a PG, and that's not really done near the hoop.

You can put a simplified logic to try and explain something, but when you really look at it...

[Gmoney2002]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
i would still take tmac in a second though assuming he can stay healthy.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Yeah thejake, take it to 'em. TMAC is the best player in the league period. This Kidd vs. Kobe thing is killin' it. Jason Kidd, with the exception of Shaq, is the most valuabe player in the league. HOWEVER, he aint the best player in the league, T-Mac is(Kobe a close second ).

[hoopscitylive]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

I agree with GMoney. Kidd is the MVP. If anyone watched the Nets game last night, they showed the improvement in wins Kidd's teams had in their first year he was there. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the Mavs and Nets had a 20+ win improvement after he got there, and between 10-20 wins when he got to Cal and Phoenix.

Kobe is certainly a better scorer and defender, but his rebounding, passing, and leadership don't match Kidd's, which is why J-Kidd IS the MVP of the league. (Yeah, yeah Tim Duncan... don't get me started.)

I won't get into the TMac vs. Kobe arguement, but I'll just say that TMac is an incredible player who is becoming a great leader and is quickly improving his all-around game (faster than Kobe?). Definitely one of the top 5 players in the L. (along with Shaq, Kidd, Kobe, and Duncan.)

[CheckMate]

Re: KOBE STILL \"SELFISH!?\"...

Kidd had more rebounds tha Kobe last year because he had no one else to grab them

Shaq/S. Walker - 17.7 rebounds/game last year
Van Horn, Martin, AND Todd Mac - only got 18.9 rebounds/game last year.

This year without Shaq in the lineup, Kobe is getting 12.4 rebounds compared to Kidd's 6.8

Martin and Mutombo getting 14.2
Walker and Horry are getting 13.8

Kobe and Kidd are called upon to do 2 different things. Kidd can distribute the ball because he's a point guard. He has better weapons to work with than Kobe (aside from Shaq). Kobe's job is to score and defend. He has stepped up his rebounding because that is what has been needed of him.

If you put Kobe on NJ, he wouldn't need to score as much.
If you put Kidd on LA, he wouldn't have to rebound as much.

Kobe is a career 45.8%FG and 31.7% on 3s.
Kidd is a career 40%FG and 32.2% on 3s.

You have to say that Kobe is the better shooter (including from outside) because more of his jumpshots are contested. People will play Kidd for the pass the majority of the time, thus giving him more room to shoot the jumpshot. You have to respect Kobe's J and his drive.

I am not a Kobe fan, but I believe he is a better player than Kidd and may well be the most physically complete player in the game. As far as his mentality goes, that is another issue.

If the game is on the line, I'll put it in Kobe's hands before Kidd's hands.