All Kobe and Laker Talk.....

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  • Westybro
    Rookie
    • Mar 2003
    • 352

    #826
    Re: All Kobe Talk.....

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    Westybro, first things first, stop insulting people because their opinions do not coincide with yours. You calling people stupid and ignorant because they are expressing their opinions makes you ignorant. And don't deny it because everyone here is reading your posts.
    Now let me get back to my original thoughts. Shaq gets doubled and tripled every night. What this does is free up the perimeter shooters, including Kobe. Shaq gets the ball in the post and immediately Kobe has an advantage because he can take anyone one-on-one. So he works his way open, Shaq passes the ball to him for an open jumper. That alone would acost to at least 10 points per night. However, I watched when Shaq wasn't there and what did I notice? Kobe throwing up everything in sight. Everytime he was remotely open, the shot went up. He averaged over 30+ shots per game when Shaq was out. And why? Not because no one else on the team can score. They are professionals for a reason. They can all put the ball in the hole. Kobe thought that his team had the best opportunity to win by him heaving up shot after shot, and that was proven with their 3-9 record without Shaq. Yes, Kobe can average 40 ppg without Shaq on his team. But he was shooting WELL under 50% from the field, which is a big deal. Now back to MJ. MJ didn't have a center to take ANY of the focus away from him. He was the MAIN MAN every night. And STOP with this Pippen was the second best player in the league garbage. Chuck Daly said it himself that Pippen is the second best when Jordan is there, but without Jordan on his team, Pippen isn't even Top 5. Jordan MADE Pippen the second best player in the league. I honestly feel that Shaq makes Kobe a better player, NOT VICE VERSA!! Almost every single year, Jordan shot above 50% from the field, and that's even before the days of Pippen and Grant and Rodman and Kukoc. That's in the days of Orlando Woolridge!! Kobe hasn't shot over 50% for a year YET!! And stop with the defensive comparisons. Jordan's defense was JUST AS GOOD as his offense. But everyone sees the offense because that's where the stats are. But who led the league in steals all those years? JORDAN!! His defense was just as good as his offense. Kobe's D isn't CLOSE to his offense. So kill the defensive comparisons because they don't make sense. I think Kobe is an amazing talent but please stick to comparing him to TMac because these MJ comparisons make me sick. Jordan's best year he averaged 32.5 ppg, 8 assists and 8 boards. And that was with players who struggled to hit open jumpers. TMac averages 6 assists with players who struggle to hit open jumpers. Kobe averaged 6 assists with Shaq, who dunks over whomever he pleases. Yes, Kobe is FANTASTIC!! But the fact is Shaq makes him a better player, not the other way around. Kobe gets open looks because Shaq must be doubled every night. Jordan did not have that luxury EVER. Jordan made Pippen and everyone around him better. TMac and Kobe can be fairly compared. But don't even mention Jordan in there. So Westy, I think I just made some very valid points. So don't insult me for making sense. There are other people who know a little something about basketball.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

    Sorry for hurting your feeling bro.. Almost everybody compare Kobe to MJ..been like that since day one...whys that? I NEVER once said Kobe is BETTER or will be better, I was just comparing Kobe at 24 with young Jordan at 24, you keep throwing stats at me from the 90's in his prime.

    Lakers went 3-9 without Shaq to start, don't forget Rick Fox was out too... And SO WHAT? The team isn't built around Kobe, he doesn't have the SCORERS T-MAC has in Orlando to help him. The Lakers don't play GOOD basketball till the last week of the Season and in teh playoffs, kinda like what they're doing now.

    Bottom line, I think you're trying to discredit Kobe for what he's done, and I NEVER have discredited MJ, only compared the two at an early age, you don't like that fine.

    Lemme point out something similar between the two tho...Jordan WON 6 titles becuase of PHIL JACKSON and Pippen and great roleplayers. Kobe won 3 straight(and counting) with Shaq, PHIL JACKSON and great roleplayers. Go figure.

    Comment

    • Westybro
      Rookie
      • Mar 2003
      • 352

      #827
      Re: All Kobe Talk.....

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      Westybro, first things first, stop insulting people because their opinions do not coincide with yours. You calling people stupid and ignorant because they are expressing their opinions makes you ignorant. And don't deny it because everyone here is reading your posts.
      Now let me get back to my original thoughts. Shaq gets doubled and tripled every night. What this does is free up the perimeter shooters, including Kobe. Shaq gets the ball in the post and immediately Kobe has an advantage because he can take anyone one-on-one. So he works his way open, Shaq passes the ball to him for an open jumper. That alone would acost to at least 10 points per night. However, I watched when Shaq wasn't there and what did I notice? Kobe throwing up everything in sight. Everytime he was remotely open, the shot went up. He averaged over 30+ shots per game when Shaq was out. And why? Not because no one else on the team can score. They are professionals for a reason. They can all put the ball in the hole. Kobe thought that his team had the best opportunity to win by him heaving up shot after shot, and that was proven with their 3-9 record without Shaq. Yes, Kobe can average 40 ppg without Shaq on his team. But he was shooting WELL under 50% from the field, which is a big deal. Now back to MJ. MJ didn't have a center to take ANY of the focus away from him. He was the MAIN MAN every night. And STOP with this Pippen was the second best player in the league garbage. Chuck Daly said it himself that Pippen is the second best when Jordan is there, but without Jordan on his team, Pippen isn't even Top 5. Jordan MADE Pippen the second best player in the league. I honestly feel that Shaq makes Kobe a better player, NOT VICE VERSA!! Almost every single year, Jordan shot above 50% from the field, and that's even before the days of Pippen and Grant and Rodman and Kukoc. That's in the days of Orlando Woolridge!! Kobe hasn't shot over 50% for a year YET!! And stop with the defensive comparisons. Jordan's defense was JUST AS GOOD as his offense. But everyone sees the offense because that's where the stats are. But who led the league in steals all those years? JORDAN!! His defense was just as good as his offense. Kobe's D isn't CLOSE to his offense. So kill the defensive comparisons because they don't make sense. I think Kobe is an amazing talent but please stick to comparing him to TMac because these MJ comparisons make me sick. Jordan's best year he averaged 32.5 ppg, 8 assists and 8 boards. And that was with players who struggled to hit open jumpers. TMac averages 6 assists with players who struggle to hit open jumpers. Kobe averaged 6 assists with Shaq, who dunks over whomever he pleases. Yes, Kobe is FANTASTIC!! But the fact is Shaq makes him a better player, not the other way around. Kobe gets open looks because Shaq must be doubled every night. Jordan did not have that luxury EVER. Jordan made Pippen and everyone around him better. TMac and Kobe can be fairly compared. But don't even mention Jordan in there. So Westy, I think I just made some very valid points. So don't insult me for making sense. There are other people who know a little something about basketball.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      Sorry for hurting your feeling bro.. Almost everybody compare Kobe to MJ..been like that since day one...whys that? I NEVER once said Kobe is BETTER or will be better, I was just comparing Kobe at 24 with young Jordan at 24, you keep throwing stats at me from the 90's in his prime.

      Lakers went 3-9 without Shaq to start, don't forget Rick Fox was out too... And SO WHAT? The team isn't built around Kobe, he doesn't have the SCORERS T-MAC has in Orlando to help him. The Lakers don't play GOOD basketball till the last week of the Season and in teh playoffs, kinda like what they're doing now.

      Bottom line, I think you're trying to discredit Kobe for what he's done, and I NEVER have discredited MJ, only compared the two at an early age, you don't like that fine.

      Lemme point out something similar between the two tho...Jordan WON 6 titles becuase of PHIL JACKSON and Pippen and great roleplayers. Kobe won 3 straight(and counting) with Shaq, PHIL JACKSON and great roleplayers. Go figure.

      Comment

      • Westybro
        Rookie
        • Mar 2003
        • 352

        #828
        Re: All Kobe Talk.....

        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        Projected "I wanna' be like Mike without Shaq" lineup:

        pg. Penny (Harper)
        sg. Kobe (Dare I say it)
        sf. T-Mac (Pippen in his prime was the 2nd best player in the league. These two could surpass MJ and Pip for greatest duo ever)
        pf. Turkoglu (utility Euro with range)
        C. Ben Weezy (dye the fro green and it's on and poppin'. More blocks than the worm but worse man-to-man D.)

        This squad = 78 wins. This is the level of talent MJ was workin' with.

        Wally, how many rings would Kobe win with this squad? 12 or 13 straight.


        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        Imagine that!?!? TMac and Kobe running together!!!!

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        Heh..I'd rather see a few T-MAC vs KOBE NBA Finals

        Comment

        • Westybro
          Rookie
          • Mar 2003
          • 352

          #829
          Re: All Kobe Talk.....

          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          Projected "I wanna' be like Mike without Shaq" lineup:

          pg. Penny (Harper)
          sg. Kobe (Dare I say it)
          sf. T-Mac (Pippen in his prime was the 2nd best player in the league. These two could surpass MJ and Pip for greatest duo ever)
          pf. Turkoglu (utility Euro with range)
          C. Ben Weezy (dye the fro green and it's on and poppin'. More blocks than the worm but worse man-to-man D.)

          This squad = 78 wins. This is the level of talent MJ was workin' with.

          Wally, how many rings would Kobe win with this squad? 12 or 13 straight.


          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          Imagine that!?!? TMac and Kobe running together!!!!

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          Heh..I'd rather see a few T-MAC vs KOBE NBA Finals

          Comment

          • ShaKobe
            G* L*k* Sh*w!!!
            • Sep 2002
            • 2964

            #830
            Re: All Kobe Talk.....

            Ahhh, this is what I call healthy arguments. Look at what that young man Kobe has done for us all.

            Comment

            • ShaKobe
              G* L*k* Sh*w!!!
              • Sep 2002
              • 2964

              #831
              Re: All Kobe Talk.....

              Ahhh, this is what I call healthy arguments. Look at what that young man Kobe has done for us all.

              Comment

              • Padgoi

                #832
                Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                Aholbert, I didn't know mods were allowed to be fanboys. But anyway:
                He averaged 25.8 shots/ game when Shaq was out. And how many of those were forced? And how many shots dd he average during his little "lemme score 40+ points per game and not care whether we win or lose" run? DEFINITELY ABOVE 30!

                You proved the second point yourself. Jordan's CAREER FG % is 49.7%, and that includes this year's paultry 44%. Kobe or TMac have yet to be above 46%. Fantastic!

                Jordan only shot below 50% after his first retirement. If he didn't retire, he definitely would've continued shooting above 50% without a doubt, but that is only my opinion (which I feel most will agree with).

                You're right, steals doesn't necessarily mean good defender. BUT IT HELPS!! I was just adding a stat to prove my point, killa. Jordan's defense was just as good as his offense, no questions asked.

                Don't compare Kobe to MJ. Compare Kobe to TMac. And I STILL think TMac is better. He scores more points, shoots higher fg%, has similar assist and rebound numbers, gets to the playoffs every year with a subpar supporting cast (as Grant Hill gets injured every year) and doesn't have a Shaq to help him.

                Comment

                • Padgoi

                  #833
                  Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                  Aholbert, I didn't know mods were allowed to be fanboys. But anyway:
                  He averaged 25.8 shots/ game when Shaq was out. And how many of those were forced? And how many shots dd he average during his little "lemme score 40+ points per game and not care whether we win or lose" run? DEFINITELY ABOVE 30!

                  You proved the second point yourself. Jordan's CAREER FG % is 49.7%, and that includes this year's paultry 44%. Kobe or TMac have yet to be above 46%. Fantastic!

                  Jordan only shot below 50% after his first retirement. If he didn't retire, he definitely would've continued shooting above 50% without a doubt, but that is only my opinion (which I feel most will agree with).

                  You're right, steals doesn't necessarily mean good defender. BUT IT HELPS!! I was just adding a stat to prove my point, killa. Jordan's defense was just as good as his offense, no questions asked.

                  Don't compare Kobe to MJ. Compare Kobe to TMac. And I STILL think TMac is better. He scores more points, shoots higher fg%, has similar assist and rebound numbers, gets to the playoffs every year with a subpar supporting cast (as Grant Hill gets injured every year) and doesn't have a Shaq to help him.

                  Comment

                  • **DONOTDELETE**
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Oct 2025
                    • 19598

                    #834
                    Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                    And how many shots dd he average during his little "lemme score 40+ points per game and not care whether we win or lose" run? DEFINITELY ABOVE 30!


                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    you're crazy. what was the Lakers' record during that selfish run of Kobe's?

                    And stop talking about MJ's 50% shooting, it was a long time ago, the game has changed, guards don't shoot 50% anymore. If you wanna keep going back into the past, then why are we even talking about MJ being the greatest ever? Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50ppg for a season, what's MJ's best average? 35ppg!? ha, that's nothing.

                    Comment

                    • **DONOTDELETE**
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Oct 2025
                      • 19598

                      #835
                      Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                      And how many shots dd he average during his little "lemme score 40+ points per game and not care whether we win or lose" run? DEFINITELY ABOVE 30!


                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                      you're crazy. what was the Lakers' record during that selfish run of Kobe's?

                      And stop talking about MJ's 50% shooting, it was a long time ago, the game has changed, guards don't shoot 50% anymore. If you wanna keep going back into the past, then why are we even talking about MJ being the greatest ever? Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50ppg for a season, what's MJ's best average? 35ppg!? ha, that's nothing.

                      Comment

                      • aholbert32
                        (aka Alberto)
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 33106

                        #836
                        Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        Aholbert, I didn't know mods were allowed to be fanboys. But anyway:
                        He averaged 25.8 shots/ game when Shaq was out. And how many of those were forced? And how many shots dd he average during his little "lemme score 40+ points per game and not care whether we win or lose" run? DEFINITELY ABOVE 30!

                        You proved the second point yourself. Jordan's CAREER FG % is 49.7%, and that includes this year's paultry 44%. Kobe or TMac have yet to be above 46%. Fantastic!

                        Jordan only shot below 50% after his first retirement. If he didn't retire, he definitely would've continued shooting above 50% without a doubt, but that is only my opinion (which I feel most will agree with).

                        You're right, steals doesn't necessarily mean good defender. BUT IT HELPS!! I was just adding a stat to prove my point, killa. Jordan's defense was just as good as his offense, no questions asked.

                        Don't compare Kobe to MJ. Compare Kobe to TMac. And I STILL think TMac is better. He scores more points, shoots higher fg%, has similar assist and rebound numbers, gets to the playoffs every year with a subpar supporting cast (as Grant Hill gets injured every year) and doesn't have a Shaq to help him.

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                        You know what I find funny about some of the posters here? They resort to namecalling when someone presents facts to them. You made a couple of incorrect statements, I rebutted with facts that proved those statements were wrong.

                        Instead of you presenting facts to show I'm wrong, you choose to call me a fanboy.

                        You said Kobe averaged over 30 shots a game when Shaq was gone (clearly pulling that number out of your @ss) and I showed you he averaged 25.8.

                        You said Jordan averaged over 50% fg for almost his entire career, I showed you he only was over 50% for 6.

                        And Kobe averaged 30 shots a game during his 40 ppg game streak not over 30 but it doesnt matter because you just want to continue to run your mouth without any factual basis.

                        If you want to have intelligent debates, how about you use facts. But since you cant, I guess youll just respond by calling me a fanboy.

                        Comment

                        • aholbert32
                          (aka Alberto)
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 33106

                          #837
                          Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          Aholbert, I didn't know mods were allowed to be fanboys. But anyway:
                          He averaged 25.8 shots/ game when Shaq was out. And how many of those were forced? And how many shots dd he average during his little "lemme score 40+ points per game and not care whether we win or lose" run? DEFINITELY ABOVE 30!

                          You proved the second point yourself. Jordan's CAREER FG % is 49.7%, and that includes this year's paultry 44%. Kobe or TMac have yet to be above 46%. Fantastic!

                          Jordan only shot below 50% after his first retirement. If he didn't retire, he definitely would've continued shooting above 50% without a doubt, but that is only my opinion (which I feel most will agree with).

                          You're right, steals doesn't necessarily mean good defender. BUT IT HELPS!! I was just adding a stat to prove my point, killa. Jordan's defense was just as good as his offense, no questions asked.

                          Don't compare Kobe to MJ. Compare Kobe to TMac. And I STILL think TMac is better. He scores more points, shoots higher fg%, has similar assist and rebound numbers, gets to the playoffs every year with a subpar supporting cast (as Grant Hill gets injured every year) and doesn't have a Shaq to help him.

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                          You know what I find funny about some of the posters here? They resort to namecalling when someone presents facts to them. You made a couple of incorrect statements, I rebutted with facts that proved those statements were wrong.

                          Instead of you presenting facts to show I'm wrong, you choose to call me a fanboy.

                          You said Kobe averaged over 30 shots a game when Shaq was gone (clearly pulling that number out of your @ss) and I showed you he averaged 25.8.

                          You said Jordan averaged over 50% fg for almost his entire career, I showed you he only was over 50% for 6.

                          And Kobe averaged 30 shots a game during his 40 ppg game streak not over 30 but it doesnt matter because you just want to continue to run your mouth without any factual basis.

                          If you want to have intelligent debates, how about you use facts. But since you cant, I guess youll just respond by calling me a fanboy.

                          Comment

                          • ShaKobe
                            G* L*k* Sh*w!!!
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 2964

                            #838
                            Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            You know what I find funny about some of the posters here? They resort to namecalling when someone presents facts to them. You made a couple of incorrect statements, I rebutted with facts that proved those statements were wrong.

                            Instead of you presenting facts to show I'm wrong, you choose to call me a fanboy.

                            You said Kobe averaged over 30 shots a game when Shaq was gone (clearly pulling that number out of your @ss) and I showed you he averaged 25.8.

                            You said Jordan averaged over 50% fg for almost his entire career, I showed you he only was over 50% for 6.

                            And Kobe averaged 30 shots a game during his 40 ppg game streak not over 30 but it doesnt matter because you just want to continue to run your mouth without any factual basis.

                            If you want to have intelligent debates, how about you use facts. But since you cant, I guess youll just respond by calling me a fanboy.

                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                            Hey, be quiet fanboy, you have no idea what you're talking about!!! j/k

                            I agree, I see that a lot too. Like Jack says, "You can't handle the truth!"

                            Comment

                            • ShaKobe
                              G* L*k* Sh*w!!!
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 2964

                              #839
                              Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              You know what I find funny about some of the posters here? They resort to namecalling when someone presents facts to them. You made a couple of incorrect statements, I rebutted with facts that proved those statements were wrong.

                              Instead of you presenting facts to show I'm wrong, you choose to call me a fanboy.

                              You said Kobe averaged over 30 shots a game when Shaq was gone (clearly pulling that number out of your @ss) and I showed you he averaged 25.8.

                              You said Jordan averaged over 50% fg for almost his entire career, I showed you he only was over 50% for 6.

                              And Kobe averaged 30 shots a game during his 40 ppg game streak not over 30 but it doesnt matter because you just want to continue to run your mouth without any factual basis.

                              If you want to have intelligent debates, how about you use facts. But since you cant, I guess youll just respond by calling me a fanboy.

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                              Hey, be quiet fanboy, you have no idea what you're talking about!!! j/k

                              I agree, I see that a lot too. Like Jack says, "You can't handle the truth!"

                              Comment

                              • **DONOTDELETE**
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Oct 2025
                                • 19598

                                #840
                                Re: All Kobe Talk.....

                                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                                You know what I find funny about some of the posters here? They resort to namecalling when someone presents facts to them.

                                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                                Yeah, i know. I only resort to namecalling once i've presented facts and common sense to someone about 10 times and they keep firing back with nonsensical garbage and lies. At that point i find it's best to just call the person an idiot, and move on.

                                Comment

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