All Kobe and Laker Talk.....

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-08-2003, 08:03 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

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Sure, Kobe would score more, but what about the other stats ? rebounding, assists ?. Would the Lakers even win ? I think they had a 3-9 record w/o Shaq earlier this year.

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This just prooves your ignorance. The LAKERS ARE BUILT AROUND SHAQ, not Kobe. The Magic are BUILT around T-MAC. The simple fact Kobe get ALMOST the same stats as Tracey WITH Shaq on his team displays hes one of the best in the league. His stats would skyrocket without Shaq. When T-MAC ACUTALLY DOES SOMETHING significant..like MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND, then come talk to me.

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Prooves my ignorance? huh ?

I didn't pull that observation out of my *** pal. Kobe has been told to play within the offence. To set up his teammates first and score second. He has trouble doing that now, and he's had trouble when Shaq was out.

His stats would drop w/o Shaq. You have no idea how much more you can relax when you have the best player in basketball on your team. Read my points again, I don't want to restate everything I just said.

And the remark about T-Mac making it out of the first round..

are you madskillz ? I think you're the same person, trying to discredit great players because of what they haven't done.

But we'll see... Kobe sucked without Shaq so far, and that's a fact.

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You're the one who is trying to discredit Kobe for what he had done...note he HAS ACTUALLY done something...whoopie T-MAC is getting stats, pfft, players are judged by WINNING not stats. If Kobe had a TEAM BUILT around him, I highly doubt his stats would drop. The magic has MUCH MORE talent the the Lakers stubby...Looks like we have to wait and see..maybe in the next 5-10 years there will be a T-MAC vs Kobe NBA finals..But seriously, you can't PUT T-MAC on Kobe's level UNTIL(and he prolly will) ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. Don't come in here throw POINTLESS stats..they don't equal "greatness"

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Don't come on here 9 days strong, and discredit all of our views.

We've had some long discussed battles of posts about kobe and Mj, and whatever else relating to them. It got soo out of hand, we had to make a damn thread just for kobe.

I see what you're saying, but it looks like you don't want to give in to anybody else opinion, but your own.

And that is what's killing you in the respect sense.

**Westybro** · 04-08-2003, 08:13 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

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Sure, Kobe would score more, but what about the other stats ? rebounding, assists ?. Would the Lakers even win ? I think they had a 3-9 record w/o Shaq earlier this year.

<hr /></blockquote>

This just prooves your ignorance. The LAKERS ARE BUILT AROUND SHAQ, not Kobe. The Magic are BUILT around T-MAC. The simple fact Kobe get ALMOST the same stats as Tracey WITH Shaq on his team displays hes one of the best in the league. His stats would skyrocket without Shaq. When T-MAC ACUTALLY DOES SOMETHING significant..like MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND, then come talk to me.

<hr /></blockquote>

Prooves my ignorance? huh ?

I didn't pull that observation out of my *** pal. Kobe has been told to play within the offence. To set up his teammates first and score second. He has trouble doing that now, and he's had trouble when Shaq was out.

His stats would drop w/o Shaq. You have no idea how much more you can relax when you have the best player in basketball on your team. Read my points again, I don't want to restate everything I just said.

And the remark about T-Mac making it out of the first round..

are you madskillz ? I think you're the same person, trying to discredit great players because of what they haven't done.

But we'll see... Kobe sucked without Shaq so far, and that's a fact.

<hr /></blockquote>

You're the one who is trying to discredit Kobe for what he had done...note he HAS ACTUALLY done something...whoopie T-MAC is getting stats, pfft, players are judged by WINNING not stats. If Kobe had a TEAM BUILT around him, I highly doubt his stats would drop. The magic has MUCH MORE talent the the Lakers stubby...Looks like we have to wait and see..maybe in the next 5-10 years there will be a T-MAC vs Kobe NBA finals..But seriously, you can't PUT T-MAC on Kobe's level UNTIL(and he prolly will) ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. Don't come in here throw POINTLESS stats..they don't equal "greatness"

<hr /></blockquote>

Don't come on here 9 days strong, and discredit all of our views.

We've had some long discussed battles of posts about kobe and Mj, and whatever else relating to them. It got soo out of hand, we had to make a damn thread just for kobe.

I see what you're saying, but it looks like you don't want to give in to anybody else opinion, but your own.

And that is what's killing you in the respect sense.

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I'm not discrediting "all your" views, just views that totally discredit Kobe and make no sense IMHO. Seriously Wally, lot your posts about Kobe were not even valid but whatever. I'll calm down, and try to act a less biased.

**Westybro** · 04-08-2003, 08:13 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

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<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
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<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sure, Kobe would score more, but what about the other stats ? rebounding, assists ?. Would the Lakers even win ? I think they had a 3-9 record w/o Shaq earlier this year.

<hr /></blockquote>

This just prooves your ignorance. The LAKERS ARE BUILT AROUND SHAQ, not Kobe. The Magic are BUILT around T-MAC. The simple fact Kobe get ALMOST the same stats as Tracey WITH Shaq on his team displays hes one of the best in the league. His stats would skyrocket without Shaq. When T-MAC ACUTALLY DOES SOMETHING significant..like MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND, then come talk to me.

<hr /></blockquote>

Prooves my ignorance? huh ?

I didn't pull that observation out of my *** pal. Kobe has been told to play within the offence. To set up his teammates first and score second. He has trouble doing that now, and he's had trouble when Shaq was out.

His stats would drop w/o Shaq. You have no idea how much more you can relax when you have the best player in basketball on your team. Read my points again, I don't want to restate everything I just said.

And the remark about T-Mac making it out of the first round..

are you madskillz ? I think you're the same person, trying to discredit great players because of what they haven't done.

But we'll see... Kobe sucked without Shaq so far, and that's a fact.

<hr /></blockquote>

You're the one who is trying to discredit Kobe for what he had done...note he HAS ACTUALLY done something...whoopie T-MAC is getting stats, pfft, players are judged by WINNING not stats. If Kobe had a TEAM BUILT around him, I highly doubt his stats would drop. The magic has MUCH MORE talent the the Lakers stubby...Looks like we have to wait and see..maybe in the next 5-10 years there will be a T-MAC vs Kobe NBA finals..But seriously, you can't PUT T-MAC on Kobe's level UNTIL(and he prolly will) ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. Don't come in here throw POINTLESS stats..they don't equal "greatness"

<hr /></blockquote>

Don't come on here 9 days strong, and discredit all of our views.

We've had some long discussed battles of posts about kobe and Mj, and whatever else relating to them. It got soo out of hand, we had to make a damn thread just for kobe.

I see what you're saying, but it looks like you don't want to give in to anybody else opinion, but your own.

And that is what's killing you in the respect sense.

<hr /></blockquote>

I'm not discrediting "all your" views, just views that totally discredit Kobe and make no sense IMHO. Seriously Wally, lot your posts about Kobe were not even valid but whatever. I'll calm down, and try to act a less biased.

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-08-2003, 08:20 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

ohh, that whole 30-12=18 pts. thing?

That was abit extreme.

Sometimes I forget he had a 551 pt. 13 game streak.

Some guys score thatn many points in a two year span.

We'll see what lies ahead in the future.

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-08-2003, 08:20 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

ohh, that whole 30-12=18 pts. thing?

That was abit extreme.

Sometimes I forget he had a 551 pt. 13 game streak.

Some guys score thatn many points in a two year span.

We'll see what lies ahead in the future.

**HMcCoy** · 04-08-2003, 10:48 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

$0.02....

Kobe has shown since the beginning that he wants to be the man. He's grown so much in such a short period of time it's sick. He's a more mature, rounded player than anyone he's being compared to. And Wally, who do you think the Lakers would replace Shaq with to clog up the middle? Even though they will never duplicate Shaq they sure as hell will sign someone who can be a defensive presence. His ball D is a strength so of course they will find a big man who can compliment that. You're assuming that the Lakes will go and sign Tony Battie when shaq retires!

And BTW when Shaq does retire and the "let's see if Kobe can do it alone lke mike did" haters come out of the woodwork, let's hope he has the same help Mike had.

Let's start with whoever the best 3 in the league is and sign him. How about Garnett? Nah, Antwan is a better choice because he can handle the ball. Then again whoever it is has to be hands down the best wing in the league and a potential 50 greatest. Hmmmm.... OK we'll come back to that. Let's also give him a one dimensional banger/defender/rebounder to handle the dirty work. No brainer, plug Big Ben in here(maybe Brand). Let's move on. Now mix in an above average european player (at the time, Kukoc was one of the best of Euro imports). Turkoglu or Giicek. Then finish it off with[Harper]an experienced scorer on the downside of his career(Eddie Jones, Penny). Teach em' all the triangle and viola!

Projected "I wanna' be like Mike without Shaq" lineup:

pg. Penny (Harper)
sg. Kobe (Dare I say it)
sf. T-Mac (Pippen in his prime was the 2nd best player in the league. These two could surpass MJ and Pip for greatest duo ever)
pf. Turkoglu (utility Euro with range)
C. Ben Weezy (dye the fro green and it's on and poppin'. More blocks than the worm but worse man-to-man D.)

This squad = 78 wins. This is the level of talent MJ was workin' with.

Wally, how many rings would Kobe win with this squad? 12 or 13 straight.

**HMcCoy** · 04-08-2003, 10:48 PM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

$0.02....

Kobe has shown since the beginning that he wants to be the man. He's grown so much in such a short period of time it's sick. He's a more mature, rounded player than anyone he's being compared to. And Wally, who do you think the Lakers would replace Shaq with to clog up the middle? Even though they will never duplicate Shaq they sure as hell will sign someone who can be a defensive presence. His ball D is a strength so of course they will find a big man who can compliment that. You're assuming that the Lakes will go and sign Tony Battie when shaq retires!

And BTW when Shaq does retire and the "let's see if Kobe can do it alone lke mike did" haters come out of the woodwork, let's hope he has the same help Mike had.

Let's start with whoever the best 3 in the league is and sign him. How about Garnett? Nah, Antwan is a better choice because he can handle the ball. Then again whoever it is has to be hands down the best wing in the league and a potential 50 greatest. Hmmmm.... OK we'll come back to that. Let's also give him a one dimensional banger/defender/rebounder to handle the dirty work. No brainer, plug Big Ben in here(maybe Brand). Let's move on. Now mix in an above average european player (at the time, Kukoc was one of the best of Euro imports). Turkoglu or Giicek. Then finish it off with[Harper]an experienced scorer on the downside of his career(Eddie Jones, Penny). Teach em' all the triangle and viola!

Projected "I wanna' be like Mike without Shaq" lineup:

pg. Penny (Harper)
sg. Kobe (Dare I say it)
sf. T-Mac (Pippen in his prime was the 2nd best player in the league. These two could surpass MJ and Pip for greatest duo ever)
pf. Turkoglu (utility Euro with range)
C. Ben Weezy (dye the fro green and it's on and poppin'. More blocks than the worm but worse man-to-man D.)

This squad = 78 wins. This is the level of talent MJ was workin' with.

Wally, how many rings would Kobe win with this squad? 12 or 13 straight.

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-09-2003, 07:47 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Projected "I wanna' be like Mike without Shaq" lineup:

pg. Penny (Harper)
sg. Kobe (Dare I say it)
sf. T-Mac (Pippen in his prime was the 2nd best player in the league. These two could surpass MJ and Pip for greatest duo ever)
pf. Turkoglu (utility Euro with range)
C. Ben Weezy (dye the fro green and it's on and poppin'. More blocks than the worm but worse man-to-man D.)

This squad = 78 wins. This is the level of talent MJ was workin' with.

Wally, how many rings would Kobe win with this squad? 12 or 13 straight.

<hr /></blockquote>

Imagine that!?!? TMac and Kobe running together!!!!

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-09-2003, 07:47 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Projected "I wanna' be like Mike without Shaq" lineup:

pg. Penny (Harper)
sg. Kobe (Dare I say it)
sf. T-Mac (Pippen in his prime was the 2nd best player in the league. These two could surpass MJ and Pip for greatest duo ever)
pf. Turkoglu (utility Euro with range)
C. Ben Weezy (dye the fro green and it's on and poppin'. More blocks than the worm but worse man-to-man D.)

This squad = 78 wins. This is the level of talent MJ was workin' with.

Wally, how many rings would Kobe win with this squad? 12 or 13 straight.

<hr /></blockquote>

Imagine that!?!? TMac and Kobe running together!!!!

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-09-2003, 08:05 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

I would love to see them on a team...how sick would that be?

**DONOTDELETE** · 04-09-2003, 08:05 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

I would love to see them on a team...how sick would that be?

**Padgoi** · 04-09-2003, 09:33 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

Westybro, first things first, stop insulting people because their opinions do not coincide with yours. You calling people stupid and ignorant because they are expressing their opinions makes you ignorant. And don't deny it because everyone here is reading your posts.
Now let me get back to my original thoughts. Shaq gets doubled and tripled every night. What this does is free up the perimeter shooters, including Kobe. Shaq gets the ball in the post and immediately Kobe has an advantage because he can take anyone one-on-one. So he works his way open, Shaq passes the ball to him for an open jumper. That alone would acost to at least 10 points per night. However, I watched when Shaq wasn't there and what did I notice? Kobe throwing up everything in sight. Everytime he was remotely open, the shot went up. He averaged over 30+ shots per game when Shaq was out. And why? Not because no one else on the team can score. They are professionals for a reason. They can all put the ball in the hole. Kobe thought that his team had the best opportunity to win by him heaving up shot after shot, and that was proven with their 3-9 record without Shaq. Yes, Kobe can average 40 ppg without Shaq on his team. But he was shooting WELL under 50% from the field, which is a big deal. Now back to MJ. MJ didn't have a center to take ANY of the focus away from him. He was the MAIN MAN every night. And STOP with this Pippen was the second best player in the league garbage. Chuck Daly said it himself that Pippen is the second best when Jordan is there, but without Jordan on his team, Pippen isn't even Top 5. Jordan MADE Pippen the second best player in the league. I honestly feel that Shaq makes Kobe a better player, NOT VICE VERSA!! Almost every single year, Jordan shot above 50% from the field, and that's even before the days of Pippen and Grant and Rodman and Kukoc. That's in the days of Orlando Woolridge!! Kobe hasn't shot over 50% for a year YET!! And stop with the defensive comparisons. Jordan's defense was JUST AS GOOD as his offense. But everyone sees the offense because that's where the stats are. But who led the league in steals all those years? JORDAN!! His defense was just as good as his offense. Kobe's D isn't CLOSE to his offense. So kill the defensive comparisons because they don't make sense. I think Kobe is an amazing talent but please stick to comparing him to TMac because these MJ comparisons make me sick. Jordan's best year he averaged 32.5 ppg, 8 assists and 8 boards. And that was with players who struggled to hit open jumpers. TMac averages 6 assists with players who struggle to hit open jumpers. Kobe averaged 6 assists with Shaq, who dunks over whomever he pleases. Yes, Kobe is FANTASTIC!! But the fact is Shaq makes him a better player, not the other way around. Kobe gets open looks because Shaq must be doubled every night. Jordan did not have that luxury EVER. Jordan made Pippen and everyone around him better. TMac and Kobe can be fairly compared. But don't even mention Jordan in there. So Westy, I think I just made some very valid points. So don't insult me for making sense. There are other people who know a little something about basketball.

**Padgoi** · 04-09-2003, 09:33 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

Westybro, first things first, stop insulting people because their opinions do not coincide with yours. You calling people stupid and ignorant because they are expressing their opinions makes you ignorant. And don't deny it because everyone here is reading your posts.
Now let me get back to my original thoughts. Shaq gets doubled and tripled every night. What this does is free up the perimeter shooters, including Kobe. Shaq gets the ball in the post and immediately Kobe has an advantage because he can take anyone one-on-one. So he works his way open, Shaq passes the ball to him for an open jumper. That alone would acost to at least 10 points per night. However, I watched when Shaq wasn't there and what did I notice? Kobe throwing up everything in sight. Everytime he was remotely open, the shot went up. He averaged over 30+ shots per game when Shaq was out. And why? Not because no one else on the team can score. They are professionals for a reason. They can all put the ball in the hole. Kobe thought that his team had the best opportunity to win by him heaving up shot after shot, and that was proven with their 3-9 record without Shaq. Yes, Kobe can average 40 ppg without Shaq on his team. But he was shooting WELL under 50% from the field, which is a big deal. Now back to MJ. MJ didn't have a center to take ANY of the focus away from him. He was the MAIN MAN every night. And STOP with this Pippen was the second best player in the league garbage. Chuck Daly said it himself that Pippen is the second best when Jordan is there, but without Jordan on his team, Pippen isn't even Top 5. Jordan MADE Pippen the second best player in the league. I honestly feel that Shaq makes Kobe a better player, NOT VICE VERSA!! Almost every single year, Jordan shot above 50% from the field, and that's even before the days of Pippen and Grant and Rodman and Kukoc. That's in the days of Orlando Woolridge!! Kobe hasn't shot over 50% for a year YET!! And stop with the defensive comparisons. Jordan's defense was JUST AS GOOD as his offense. But everyone sees the offense because that's where the stats are. But who led the league in steals all those years? JORDAN!! His defense was just as good as his offense. Kobe's D isn't CLOSE to his offense. So kill the defensive comparisons because they don't make sense. I think Kobe is an amazing talent but please stick to comparing him to TMac because these MJ comparisons make me sick. Jordan's best year he averaged 32.5 ppg, 8 assists and 8 boards. And that was with players who struggled to hit open jumpers. TMac averages 6 assists with players who struggle to hit open jumpers. Kobe averaged 6 assists with Shaq, who dunks over whomever he pleases. Yes, Kobe is FANTASTIC!! But the fact is Shaq makes him a better player, not the other way around. Kobe gets open looks because Shaq must be doubled every night. Jordan did not have that luxury EVER. Jordan made Pippen and everyone around him better. TMac and Kobe can be fairly compared. But don't even mention Jordan in there. So Westy, I think I just made some very valid points. So don't insult me for making sense. There are other people who know a little something about basketball.

**aholbert32** · 04-09-2003, 10:00 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

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He averaged over 30+ shots per game when Shaq was out.

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Thats your first lie. He averaged 25.8 during the time Shaq was gone. Players like TMAC and Iverson average around the same consistently so thats not a extreme amount.\

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Yes, Kobe can average 40 ppg without Shaq on his team. But he was shooting WELL under 50% from the field, which is a big deal

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe is currently shooting 45% and Tmac is shooting 46%. Big difference right? He shot 42% percent during the games Shaq was gone which isnt great for a guard but is around the league averages for guards. Currently no guards shoot over 50% and the highest guard fg % is 49% by Calbert Cheaney.

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Almost every single year, Jordan shot above 50% from the field

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Lie number 2. Jordan was a great shooter but he only shot above 50% 6 of his 15 seasons. Those years, 84-85 and 87-92 he shot above 50%. Jordan never shot above 50% after 92.

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But who led the league in steals all those years?

<hr /></blockquote>

Leading the league in steals does not equate to being a GREAT defender. Iverson is leading the league in steals now and nobiody says he is a great defender. In order to lead the league in steals you must take a lot of chances which leads to missed assignments and easy baskets sometimes.

I'm not saying Jordan wasnt a great defender but just saying he lead the league in steals doesnt prove that point.

Im not gonna compare Kobe to Mike until their careers are over but IMO Kobe is a better player right now than TMAC.

**aholbert32** · 04-09-2003, 10:00 AM

Re: All Kobe Talk.....

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
He averaged over 30+ shots per game when Shaq was out.

<hr /></blockquote>

Thats your first lie. He averaged 25.8 during the time Shaq was gone. Players like TMAC and Iverson average around the same consistently so thats not a extreme amount.\

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Yes, Kobe can average 40 ppg without Shaq on his team. But he was shooting WELL under 50% from the field, which is a big deal

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe is currently shooting 45% and Tmac is shooting 46%. Big difference right? He shot 42% percent during the games Shaq was gone which isnt great for a guard but is around the league averages for guards. Currently no guards shoot over 50% and the highest guard fg % is 49% by Calbert Cheaney.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Almost every single year, Jordan shot above 50% from the field

<hr /></blockquote>

Lie number 2. Jordan was a great shooter but he only shot above 50% 6 of his 15 seasons. Those years, 84-85 and 87-92 he shot above 50%. Jordan never shot above 50% after 92.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
But who led the league in steals all those years?

<hr /></blockquote>

Leading the league in steals does not equate to being a GREAT defender. Iverson is leading the league in steals now and nobiody says he is a great defender. In order to lead the league in steals you must take a lot of chances which leads to missed assignments and easy baskets sometimes.

I'm not saying Jordan wasnt a great defender but just saying he lead the league in steals doesnt prove that point.

Im not gonna compare Kobe to Mike until their careers are over but IMO Kobe is a better player right now than TMAC.

All Kobe and Laker Talk.....

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