Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

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  • ex carrabba fan
    I'll thank him for you
    • Oct 2004
    • 32744

    #61
    Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

    Originally posted by Bornindamecca
    I'm disappointed in you, Ex. Lebron didn't guard Kobe one on one when they played last time. Gooden and Hughes were shadowing. They were playing a loose zone. Even if you were going to make an argument that Lebron is a good defender, saying that he could shut down Kobe would make him a great defender. In fact, it would make him the best 1 on 1 defender in the league. Clearly that isn't the case, so let's not even look at it in those terms. No one can guard any elite player one on one. They can only make them take bad shots on a consistent enough basis to balance out their talent, and spare the coach from having to double and triple the entire game, which allows them to play the other teammates more honestly. And this goes for most very good, to great players.

    As far as whether or not he "can" be a great defender...well anyone can be a great defender. It takes effort and concentration in that area of the game. Lebron just hasn't reached that point in his career where he says "that's it, I want to guard the best player every time". If he did, he'd be guarding a lot of tough covers, because of his speed and size. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't, but it all comes down to defensive fundamentals. I haven't seen Lebron take a charge yet. I haven't seen him force anyone to dribble off of their foot. I haven't even seen him force a terrible shot. His defensive fundamentals aren't there yet, and it's largely because he's an offensive stud out of high school. I'm not sure if he has the lateral quickness to be as good of a defender as Kobe, but he does have the height and jumping ability to bother shots if he learns to stay in front of people, and move them into uncomfortable areas on the court.

    All that Lebron/Kobe BS aside, I think "most complete" is a tough call without context. For a big, Rasheed is very, very complete. KG is obvious. For a guard, Kobe is obvious as well, but Manu Ginobli is the second best two way player in the league, IMO. His D, offense and teamwork are at a championship level. No shooting issues either, not even at the line. So my non obvious honorable mention goes to Manu.
    Born you gotta go back to the final possessions. Bron didn't let Bryant score, Braynt couldn't get to the rack. I shouldn't have said "shut down", I meant only at the end Kobe got shut down. It was mano mano Bryant and James. James got him too at the end of that game. Everything else you said agree with.

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    • Bornindamecca
      Books Nelson Simnation
      • Jul 2007
      • 10919

      #62
      Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

      I guess we'll agree to disagree. I remember the last few plays very clearly. One of the commentators said something like, "great individual defense by Lebron" on the player were Kobe was near the elbow 3, and later on an analyst corrected him, and gave credit to Coach Brown, Hughes, Gooden and Lebron for all playing position D. Hardly mano a mano. On the other end, he hit a great jumper, and all credit to him, but on defense it was a team game all the way. It wasn't a smothering trap, it was solid, smart non gambling position defense by everyone on that side of the floor.
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      • TheMatrix31
        RF
        • Jul 2002
        • 52931

        #63
        Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

        Originally posted by Vince
        Agreed. Manu has NO flaws in his game whatsoever.
        Except that he plays like a *****.

        Comment

        • DC
          Hall Of Fame
          • Oct 2002
          • 17996

          #64
          Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

          Originally posted by trobinson97
          Wonder where this thread is headed...
          Sure it is an anti Kobe or Bron post
          Concrete evidence/videos please

          Comment

          • lbartlett_32
            Pro
            • Nov 2006
            • 876

            #65
            Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

            Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
            Apparently except shooting threes. He's pretty much dead last in percentage for those who have shot at least 100 threes. 30%. Yikes.
            His foul shooting is one of the best tough...... Isn't it?
            Michael: Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever. - The Godfather

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            • lbartlett_32
              Pro
              • Nov 2006
              • 876

              #66
              Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

              Originally posted by malek05
              Kobe??? Ha ha ha ha... Maybe offensively, but complete?

              He just learned how to pass the ball this year...

              Appearently, he can only be sucessful if he has 3 other all stars on his team...


              Oh, he also needs to have one of the greatest basketball coaches of all time on his team to be successful... and by successful i mean to even make the playoffs

              All around i would have to go with lebron...

              I mean a triple double is a pretty good indicator of "all around" talent... lebron has a number of those...

              Has kobe ever had one?

              [ kobe slurpers insert crass comments here ]
              1. He plays in the West. I am sick of always using this, but peole tend to forget how much better the West is. He never missed the playoffs with the Kwame crew. As far as just learning to pass. Easy, he never had anyone who could catch a ball and finish.

              2. Who is the third and fourth all star? You got Kobe and Pau, but then......

              3. Maybe Phil needs Mike and Kobe to be successful and by successful I mean 3 rings from Kobe and 6 from M.J.

              4. Triple doubles you say? Then it is with out a doubt, clear, and cut case of Jason Kidd. (The sarcasm is strong with this one. Beware)

              Thank you for participating.
              Michael: Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever. - The Godfather

              Comment

              • ex carrabba fan
                I'll thank him for you
                • Oct 2004
                • 32744

                #67
                Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                Originally posted by lbartlett_32
                His foul shooting is one of the best tough...... Isn't it?
                LOL at you not supporting the hometown hero.

                .30% threes [dead last]
                .70% free throws
                No All-D teams

                I've said it plenty: Picking between Bron and Bryant is splitting hairs. IMO they are the most complete AND best players in the league [if those two things are different]. Just don't feed me garbage that Bron is easily the most complete player.

                Comment

                • Kashanova
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 12695

                  #68
                  Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                  Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                  So you're saying he's going to make the All-D team this year?

                  Easily the number 1 scorer? Two more points more on average than the second highest player.

                  Bron has the most 4th quarter points, Bryant [who is second] has sat out a lot of entire 4th quarters.
                  why do you assume that stop assuming these random statements i just said he has play good consistent defense all year

                  2 more points on avg with his team getting less possesions, the cavs are 20th in possesions while the lakers have way more possesions then the cavs do. lebron also shoots a better percentage then kobe, and kobe avgs 38 mins per game im pretty sure he has had his run of 4th qtrs so i wouldnt use that excuse.

                  Comment

                  • cdubdiggity
                    MVP
                    • May 2003
                    • 1204

                    #69
                    Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                    PG - Chris Paul
                    SG - Kobe
                    SF - Lebron
                    PF - KG
                    C - .....?

                    Comment

                    • lbartlett_32
                      Pro
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 876

                      #70
                      Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                      Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                      LOL at you not supporting the hometown hero.

                      .30% threes [dead last]
                      .70% free throws
                      No All-D teams

                      I've said it plenty: Picking between Bron and Bryant is splitting hairs. IMO they are the most complete AND best players in the league [if those two things are different]. Just don't feed me garbage that Bron is easily the most complete player.
                      Funny is that I am a bartender for a Cincinnati bar in a heavily populated Cleveland fanbase area and I have rocked a Kobe and M.J. jersey to work and I don't even like jerseys. Business was slow. LOL

                      You are right Lebron is an excellent player, but the fact of the matter Kobe has been the best player in the league for the last 5 years. Then he was called selfish and not a team player for putting up mind boggling numbers. Now that he has his team in first in the West and his numbers are down (not by much) it's cause he isn't really that good. Kobe is hated by so many much like A-Rod and Tom Brady because they are better than everyone else. Jealousy is a stinky cologne.
                      Michael: Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever. - The Godfather

                      Comment

                      • Kashanova
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 12695

                        #71
                        Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                        Originally posted by lbartlett_32
                        Funny is that I am a bartender for a Cincinnati bar in a heavily populated Cleveland fanbase area and I have rocked a Kobe and M.J. jersey to work and I don't even like jerseys. Business was slow. LOL

                        You are right Lebron is an excellent player, but the fact of the matter Kobe has been the best player in the league for the last 5 years. Then he was called selfish and not a team player for putting up mind boggling numbers. Now that he has his team in first in the West and his numbers are down (not by much) it's cause he isn't really that good. Kobe is hated by so many much like A-Rod and Tom Brady because they are better than everyone else. Jealousy is a stinky cologne.
                        their not hated because there so much better, but cause there so overrated

                        Comment

                        • lbartlett_32
                          Pro
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 876

                          #72
                          Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                          Originally posted by Kashanova
                          why do you assume that stop assuming these random statements i just said he has play good consistent defense all year

                          2 more points on avg with his team getting less possesions, the cavs are 20th in possesions while the lakers have way more possesions then the cavs do. lebron also shoots a better percentage then kobe, and kobe avgs 38 mins per game im pretty sure he has had his run of 4th qtrs so i wouldnt use that excuse.
                          I watch just about every Cavs game and I have only seen two games this year where Lebron didn't play most of the fourth. Both of those games where losses to the Nugs. Other than that I see Lebron play most of the fourth even if his team is ahead by 20 with 6 mins. to go in the game. Kobe is also taking fewer shot attempts than Lebron. Lebron also gets more foul shots than Kobe.
                          Michael: Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever. - The Godfather

                          Comment

                          • lbartlett_32
                            Pro
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 876

                            #73
                            Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                            Originally posted by Kashanova
                            their not hated because there so much better, but cause there so overrated
                            Michael: Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever. - The Godfather

                            Comment

                            • Kashanova
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 12695

                              #74
                              Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                              Originally posted by lbartlett_32
                              I watch just about every Cavs game and I have only seen two games this year where Lebron didn't play most of the fourth. Both of those games where losses to the Nugs. Other than that I see Lebron play most of the fourth even if his team is ahead by 20 with 6 mins. to go in the game. Kobe is also taking fewer shot attempts than Lebron.
                              and he also missed more shots

                              Comment

                              • DTX3
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jun 2003
                                • 13022

                                #75
                                Re: Who is the most complete player in the NBA?

                                Originally posted by Kashanova
                                their not hated because there so much better, but cause there so overrated
                                Even though on the road Kobe is the ONLY one who gets MVP chants...yeah they are overrated.
                                XBL: DTX3
                                PSN: DTX987
                                WII U: DodgerBlue760

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