Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Not really. If a person's role on the team can be defined by one or two acts, he's a role player.

OK, when you look at a 2 guards stat line and he averages 22 pts, 3 rebs, and 3 assists a game, how is that asking a lot of him?

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Pick the better player.

That depends on who else is on your team. If you already have a scorer(s) on your team, then Rodman makes more sense. If you already have defense but no scoring threat, Robinson makes sense.

[Cebby]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

OK, when you look at a 2 guards stat line and he averages 22 pts, 3 rebs, and 3 assists a game, how is that asking a lot of him?

That's probably asking more of him than Rodman was ever asked to do. If he somehow got 90% of those points the exact same way and you dropped the rebounds and assists to 1.5, I could see him being considered a role player. And I don't think he would deserve the hall either.

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

That's probably asking more of him than Rodman was ever asked to do. If he somehow got 90% of those points the exact same way and you dropped the rebounds and assists to 1.5, I could see him being considered a role player. And I don't think he would deserve the hall either.

Probably? And the fact that you arbitrarily say 1.5 rebs/assists is a role player but not 3 is laughable. Posturing at its most feeblest. When people no longer have a point, they resort to posturing like this. LOL. Too rich.

[Cebby]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Probably? And the fact that you arbitrarily say 1.5 rebs/assists is a role player but not 3 is laughable. Posturing at its most feeblest. When people no longer have a point, they resort to posturing like this. LOL. Too rich.

ROFL LOL Too funny

[AlexBrady]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Pick the better player.

Ok, with a gun to my head I would choose Rodman over Robinson. Lets get this straight though, neither one can be the best player on your team if you expect to win a championship. It comes down to this though, Rodman's defense and rebounding was more impacful than Robinson's 1st through 3rd quarter point making abilities (he always dissapeared in 4th quarters).

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Ok, with a gun to my head I would choose Rodman over Robinson. Lets get this straight though, neither one can be the best player on your team if you expect to win a championship. It comes down to this though, Rodman's defense and rebounding was more impacful than Robinson's 1st through 3rd quarter point making abilities (he always dissapeared in 4th quarters).

Now you are just exaggerating for frankly no damn reason. I know you don't like Robinson but lets be for real here. Let's not act like the only thing Robinson did was score. He rebounded and played pretty damn good defense himself. The combo of Robinson's scoring, rebounding, and defense destroys Rodman's just rebounding and defense. The fact is Robinson was very good to great in all three areas that you mentioned. Rodman only in two. I will take Robinson's extra 20 points and 3 blocks over Rodman's extra 3 rebounds any day of the week.

Lastly I could see if you said Robinson wasn't the best clutch player but let's not act like he only score his points in the first three quarters. He score plenty of points in the fourth quarter. Again you are just exaggerating for no damn reason. There is no way in hell Rodman was a better basketball PLAYER than Robinson.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Now you are just exaggerating for frankly no damn reason. I know you don't like Robinson but lets be for real here. Let's not act like the only thing Robinson did was score. He rebounded and played pretty damn good defense himself. The combo of Robinson's scoring, rebounding, and defense destroys Rodman's just rebounding and defense. The fact is Robinson was very good to great in all three areas that you mentioned. Rodman only in two. I will take Robinson's extra 20 points and 3 blocks over Rodman's extra 3 rebounds any day of the week.

Lastly I could see if you said Robinson wasn't the best clutch player but let's not act like he only score his points in the first three quarters. He score plenty of points in the fourth quarter. Again you are just exaggerating for no damn reason. There is no way in hell Rodman was a better basketball PLAYER than Robinson.

I do like Robinson but I see him for what he is - a second or third scoring option on a championship team. Why? Because he is unreliable in 4th quarters and he is just an average on ball defender. He isn't the leader he was made out to be either (evidenced by my Rodman story). He wasn't an elite rebounder in a crowd (don't be fooled by the stats). He could score points in the 4th quarter but only meaningless ones when the game was all but lost. Of course, he had a terrific body, was very bright, and he was a great guy which the media absolutely ate up. In truth, Rodman's efforts were more impactful.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

I do like Robinson but I see him for what he is - a second or third scoring option on a championship team. Why? Because he is unreliable in 4th quarters and he is just an average on ball defender. He isn't the leader he was made out to be either (evidenced by my Rodman story). He wasn't an elite rebounder in a crowd (don't be fooled by the stats). He could score points in the 4th quarter but only meaningless ones when the game was all but lost. Of course, he had a terrific body, was very bright, and he was a great guy which the media absolutely ate up. In truth, Rodman's efforts were more impactful.

But your Rodman story is far from the facts. The fact is Rodman was ran out of San Antonio. They where tired of his ******** antics and stupid behavior. He was quickly wearing out his welcome and they where wanting him gone ASAP. If you are this truly great of a player you wouldn't be traded just for Will Purdue.

I don't see how you can say he wasn't a good leader. Look at his win totals and what he carried to that kind of success. It wasn't like he was on a loaded team. He lost to other guys in the playoffs cause they had flat out better teams and players. His number 2 man was Sean Elliot for crying out loud. Elliot was good but if he was your number 2 man compared to what those other teams had it doesn't look so good. I won't even go into who his number 3 man was or the rest of his roster. The fact is he took the worst team in the league and turned them into a 50 plus win team.

I don't see how you say Rodman was more impactful. His offense was horrible and didn't contribute anything other than an occasional tip in. So he only really impacted one end of the court. If Rodman played today he wouldn't make it through half a season with all his ******** antics on the court and countless technical fouls. Let's be real if you headbutt a ref or kick a camera man in today's game you would be looking at around a 15 to 20 game suspension at a minimum. I saw tons on top of tons of Rodman's games and see him for what he was. A great rebounder and defender but also a head case and was worthless on the offensive end unless he was getting a tip in. I loved having him on my Bulls and he helped alot but he also was a distraction. He needs to thank MJ for kepping him in the league. If he was on any other team pulling that crap he would have been long gone. Jordan kept him somewhat under control.

You can talk about the 5 rings all you want but the facts is that those Bulls teams would have the rings with at least 10 other guys playing that power forward spot. I mean hell they did when three before Rodman ever became a part of that team with Horace Grant starting. Let's not act like he was the driving force in those championships. He was a great role player. With Jordan and Pippen you could throw any good rebounder and defender at the four spot and win rings.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

But your Rodman story is far from the facts. The fact is Rodman was ran out of San Antonio. They where tired of his ******** antics and stupid behavior. He was quickly wearing out his welcome and they where wanting him gone ASAP. If you are this truly great of a player you wouldn't be traded just for Will Purdue.

I don't see how you can say he wasn't a good leader. Look at his win totals and what he carried to that kind of success. It wasn't like he was on a loaded team. He lost to other guys in the playoffs cause they had flat out better teams and players. His number 2 man was Sean Elliot for crying out loud. Elliot was good but if he was your number 2 man compared to what those other teams had it doesn't look so good. I won't even go into who his number 3 man was or the rest of his roster. The fact is he took the worst team in the league and turned them into a 50 plus win team.

I don't see how you say Rodman was more impactful. His offense was horrible and didn't contribute anything other than an occasional tip in. So he only really impacted one end of the court. If Rodman played today he wouldn't make it through half a season with all his ******** antics on the court and countless technical fouls. Let's be real if you headbutt a ref or kick a camera man in today's game you would be looking at around a 15 to 20 game suspension at a minimum. I saw tons on top of tons of Rodman's games and see him for what he was. A great rebounder and defender but also a head case and was worthless on the offensive end unless he was getting a tip in. I loved having him on my Bulls and he helped alot but he also was a distraction. He needs to thank MJ for kepping him in the league. If he was on any other team pulling that crap he would have been long gone. Jordan kept him somewhat under control.

You can talk about the 5 rings all you want but the facts is that those Bulls teams would have the rings with at least 10 other guys playing that power forward spot. I mean hell they did when three before Rodman ever became a part of that team with Horace Grant starting. Let's not act like he was the driving force in those championships. He was a great role player. With Jordan and Pippen you could throw any good rebounder and defender at the four spot and win rings.

Rodman was run out of San Antonio because Robinson didn't like him all. He refused to cover Rodman's check for 4 seconds (so he could sprint back up court) for fear of being embarrased by a quicker player. If the Admiral was as courageous as everyone says he would have done it. Not doing it let Rodman know that he wasn't serious about winning a title.

He got his buttox handed to him by his contemporary Olajuwon in the playoffs. The #2 on that Rockets team was Clyde Drexler. Now, was Drexler (at age 32 with declining skills) demonstrably better than a prime of his career Sean Elliot so much so that it would constitute a thrashing? It is debatable.

Robinson mustered 50 plus wins but limited playoff success.

I never said Rodman wasn't a headcase. He was a nutcase party animal. That shouldn't keep him out of the Hall of Fame. We are not talking about how he would translate to todays game. Your right, his offense was limited but he didn't take dumb shots and he left the scoring up to the scorers. He was an elite rebounder and defender and I'm talking an inner circle Hall of Fame style rebounder and defender. There are many undeserving Hall of Famers whose defense was horrible (looking at you Gervin, Hawkins, and Maravich) and were worthless on defense. For what its worth, great defense trumps great offense in the money season.
Jordan did keep Rodman under control.

I don't think you could just throw anybody at the power forward spot and expect multiple championships on those Bulls teams. They certainly would not have been as dominant and you seem to be forgetting Rodman's titles in Detroit. It wasn't a coincidence that he won wherever he went.

He was a driving force in those Bulls championships. His hounding defense of Karl Malone proved to be of huge significance. He could defend the 3 spot, 4 spot, and even some 5.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Not really. If a person's role on the team can be defined by one or two acts, he's a role player.

Scoring is one role. Gervin was strictly a scorer, so was Hawkins, ditto for Maravich. Why are they in the Hall when they were useless on defense and in the rebounding game? Technically speaking, Rodman has them outnumbered in the facets of the game (defense and rebounding).

[AlexBrady]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

This depends...

Is Ben Wallace a HOF'er? If he is, then I'd say Rodman is a yes.

BTW, I don't think either deserve the HOF.

Ben Wallace is indeed a Hall of Famer.

[stateprop]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Did yall know that Dennis rodman was a offensive beast in college damn man. Look at his stats

<table border="3"><tbody><tr><td colspan="18">Statistics </td> </tr> <tr> <td>

SEASONS

</td> <td>

GP

</td> <td>

FG%

</td> <td>

3PT%

</td> <td>

FT%

</td> <td>

SPG

</td> <td>

BPG

</td> <td>

RPG

</td> <td>

APG

</td> <td>

PPG

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

1982-83 Cooke County J.C.

</td> <td>

16

</td> <td>

61.6

</td> <td>
</td> <td>

58.2

</td> <td>

N/A

</td> <td>

N/A

</td> <td>

13.3

</td> <td>

N/A

</td> <td>

17.6

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

1983-84 Southeastern Oklahoma State

</td> <td>

30

</td> <td>

61.8

</td> <td>
</td> <td>

65.5

</td> <td>

1.0

</td> <td>

1.0

</td> <td>

13.1

</td> <td>

0.8

</td> <td>

26.0

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

1984-85 Southeastern Oklahoma State

</td> <td>

32

</td> <td>

64.8

</td> <td>
</td> <td>

56.6

</td> <td>

1.2

</td> <td>

1.3

</td> <td>

15.9

</td> <td>

0.4

</td> <td>

26.8

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

1985-86 Southeastern Oklahoma State

</td> <td>

34

</td> <td>

64.5

</td> <td>
</td> <td>

65.5

</td> <td>

1.8

</td> <td>

1.6

</td> <td>

17.8

</td> <td>

0.8

</td> <td>

24.4

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>

NAIA Totals

</td> <td>

96

</td> <td>

63.7

</td> <td>
</td> <td>

62.5

</td> <td>

1.4

</td> <td>

1.3

</td> <td>

15.7

</td> <td>

0.6

</td> <td>

25.7

</td></tr></tbody></table>
Man sucks that he switch to def only when he hit the NBA. Man poeple thought this dude cant score, he choose not too. Man i wonder what would happen if the worm didn't abandoned his offense, he probably will make it to the HOF.

[KG]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Rodman was run out of San Antonio because Robinson didn't like him all. He refused to cover Rodman's check for 4 seconds (so he could sprint back up court) for fear of being embarrased by a quicker player. If the Admiral was as courageous as everyone says he would have done it. Not doing it let Rodman know that he wasn't serious about winning a title.

He got his buttox handed to him by his contemporary Olajuwon in the playoffs. The #2 on that Rockets team was Clyde Drexler. Now, was Drexler (at age 32 with declining skills) demonstrably better than a prime of his career Sean Elliot so much so that it would constitute a thrashing? It is debatable.

Robinson mustered 50 plus wins but limited playoff success.

I never said Rodman wasn't a headcase. He was a nutcase party animal. That shouldn't keep him out of the Hall of Fame. We are not talking about how he would translate to todays game. Your right, his offense was limited but he didn't take dumb shots and he left the scoring up to the scorers. He was an elite rebounder and defender and I'm talking an inner circle Hall of Fame style rebounder and defender. There are many undeserving Hall of Famers whose defense was horrible (looking at you Gervin, Hawkins, and Maravich) and were worthless on defense. For what its worth, great defense trumps great offense in the money season.
Jordan did keep Rodman under control.

I don't think you could just throw anybody at the power forward spot and expect multiple championships on those Bulls teams. They certainly would not have been as dominant and you seem to be forgetting Rodman's titles in Detroit. It wasn't a coincidence that he won wherever he went.

He was a driving force in those Bulls championships. His hounding defense of Karl Malone proved to be of huge significance. He could defend the 3 spot, 4 spot, and even some 5.

Rodman was a headache for the entire organization. I'm sure his relationship with the franchise's best player had something to do with it but the Spurs as a whole were tired of his act.

Hakeem dominated EVERYONE in that area and his best teams were FAR superior to Drob's teams. I was a huge fan of those Spurs teams back then and the cast of Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Elliott, Terry Cummings, and others were not as talented as Hakeems early, mid, or late years.

Rodman was more of a nuisance in his Bulls year on defense. He was great at positional defense but don't act like he shut Karl down. Rodman did a better job the 1st year but Karl missed a ton of FTs. In Utah's last 2 games in the '98 Finals Karl gave him 39-11 & 31-11 respectively. Both games he shot well over .500% so he wasn't gunning to get #'s.

Rodman was a better on ball defender during the Pistons years but you cannont blame all of the Spurs playoff woes pre-Duncan on Robinson. Not when you're 2nd best player was Sean Elliott.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Dennis Rodman: Blackballed From the HOF?

Rodman was run out of San Antonio because Robinson didn't like him all. He refused to cover Rodman's check for 4 seconds (so he could sprint back up court) for fear of being embarrased by a quicker player. If the Admiral was as courageous as everyone says he would have done it. Not doing it let Rodman know that he wasn't serious about winning a title.

He got his buttox handed to him by his contemporary Olajuwon in the playoffs. The #2 on that Rockets team was Clyde Drexler. Now, was Drexler (at age 32 with declining skills) demonstrably better than a prime of his career Sean Elliot so much so that it would constitute a thrashing? It is debatable.

Robinson mustered 50 plus wins but limited playoff success.

I never said Rodman wasn't a headcase. He was a nutcase party animal. That shouldn't keep him out of the Hall of Fame. We are not talking about how he would translate to todays game. Your right, his offense was limited but he didn't take dumb shots and he left the scoring up to the scorers. He was an elite rebounder and defender and I'm talking an inner circle Hall of Fame style rebounder and defender. There are many undeserving Hall of Famers whose defense was horrible (looking at you Gervin, Hawkins, and Maravich) and were worthless on defense. For what its worth, great defense trumps great offense in the money season.
Jordan did keep Rodman under control.

I don't think you could just throw anybody at the power forward spot and expect multiple championships on those Bulls teams. They certainly would not have been as dominant and you seem to be forgetting Rodman's titles in Detroit. It wasn't a coincidence that he won wherever he went.

He was a driving force in those Bulls championships. His hounding defense of Karl Malone proved to be of huge significance. He could defend the 3 spot, 4 spot, and even some 5.

So do you have any proof of this Rodman story of yours?? You are the first and only person I have ever heard say this. I guess his getting suspended twice by the team had nothing to do with it. If Robinson wasn't serious about winning a title he never would have came back to play after the severe back and foot injuries. he could have easily hung it up and still been a HOF player. The fact that he came back and still gave his all speaks for itself.

As far as the Hakken destroying him things goes Hakeem also got a hold of Rodman that series and went to work on him as well. Hakeen was the best player on the planet at that time. There is no shame in losing to the best player there is. Let's not act like Rodman didn't get a piece of that *** kicking as well. Yes Drexler even at that time was a far better player than Elliot ever was. Drexler was a complete player and contributed in every part of the game. His overall game and defense was leaps and bounds ahead of Elliot and still was even at that time. We are talking about a man who gave you 20 points, 8 boards, 5 assits, and 2 steals a game. that trumps Elliot in every category.

I didn't say you could throw just anybody in there but there where at least around 10 guys that you could have and they still would have won. I was referring to his Chicago days so I'm not forgetting anything in Detroit. Yes he won there but again let's not act like he was the dominant force on those teams. He was the sixth man. Yes he played a major role on the team but let's not act like he was not replaceable. Isiah Thomas was the driving force of that team. He didn't win with the Spurs when he was brought in to have more of a role.

I'm not denying he was a major factor on his championship teams but he was also lucky to play with the stars that he played with. You put him on say the Knicks of that time or the Pacers or somebody like that and they STILL wouldn't have won any titles. How many people can say that they played with the greatest of all time and one of the top 5 PG's of all time?? I mean the man did play with THREE of the 50 greatest players of all time.

Like somebody else said Rodman would be in the hall of very good but he doesn't belong in the hall of fame. He was never a dominate player and was never at the top of the league at his position or overall. I mean hell if we are going to reward players for being great and what they are asked to do and for being role players then why not just put Robery Horry, Steve Kerr, Mark Eaton, and Alvin Robertson in too while we are at it.