Clutch

[Vince]

Re: Clutch

What is the question?

point is if you say you've watched as many VC games as you claim you have, there is no way you can say Vince wilts away in clutch situations...Maybe he plays half-assed most of the game, but when it is on the line and you need a game winner, VC is one of the best.

[eazy_z18]

Re: Clutch

point is if you say you've watched as many VC games as you claim you have, there is no way you can say Vince wilts away in clutch situations...Maybe he plays half-assed most of the game, but when it is on the line and you need a game winner, VC is one of the best.

Couldn't agree more, Vince isn't even in my top 5. Lebron is in but barely and all you have to look at is his 4th quarter performance against the Magic. He scored a lot, but missed free throws, had like since TO's in 4th quarter and overtime in one game. But his ability to hit the clutch JUMP SHOT gets him in.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Clutch

For example, an elite clutch player like Bryant will come through in the clutch about 70% of the time whether it be through a jump shot, snappy pass, or alert defense. Dirk will come through in the clutch about 40% of the time through fadeaways, set shots, and the ocassional drive (his passes are noticeably sloppier in crunch time).

THESE ARE FACTS, PEOPLE!

Those percentages were gleaned after months of combing through video and box score data. Clearly, AlexBrady knows exactly what he's talking about in this thread.

[Pared]

Re: Clutch

WHOA there... thread took a nose dive when Vince was claimed to be un-clutch.

That's just crazy.

I'm actually more baffled to see Nate and Q so high up on the list at 82 games. Nate is 6th in scoring during "clutch time."

[Pared]

Re: Clutch

Couldn't agree more, Vince isn't even in my top 5. Lebron is in but barely and all you have to look at is his 4th quarter performance against the Magic. He scored a lot, but missed free throws, had like since TO's in 4th quarter and overtime in one game. But his ability to hit the clutch JUMP SHOT gets him in.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

So a player can never play poorly at the end of a game for them to be considered clutch? They just need to have a few games here and there where they don't do well and all of a sudden they're unclutch?

Is this the Twilight Zone? You're completely discounting the amount to games he single-handedly carried his team to a victory?

[AlexBrady]

Re: Clutch

THESE ARE FACTS, PEOPLE!

Those percentages were gleaned after months of combing through video and box score data. Clearly, AlexBrady knows exactly what he's talking about in this thread.

Since we have so many stat heads in here, someone should go to a website that lists 4th quarter shooting percentages. Report back to me on Nowitzki's percentage in the 4th quarter. I imagine it takes a nosedive based on all the games I have seen this year.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Clutch

Well he's #8 (this year, which wasn't his best) on the clutch scoring list. He's lower on the 4th quarter scoring list (#30, sandwiched between Al Jefferson and Steve Nash, slightly below Melo), but certainly still respectable.

He makes 42% from the field and 31% from deep in clutch time -- not great. I wasn't really disputing the Dirk point, I just liked how you pulled percentages out of your ***, that was cute.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Clutch

Well he's #8 (this year, which wasn't his best) on the clutch scoring list. He's lower on the 4th quarter scoring list (#30, sandwiched between Al Jefferson and Steve Nash, slightly below Melo), but certainly still respectable.

He makes 42% from the field and 31% from deep in clutch time -- not great. I wasn't really disputing the Dirk point, I just liked how you pulled percentages out of your ***, that was cute.

Those percentages are brutal for a 7 foot mid range shooter.

Yet another example of Nowitzki making a poor decision:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19xH1gNWxt4

[ZB9]

Re: Clutch

Clutch players excel in playoff elimination games. Here are Dirk's career averages in elimination games

Points per game: 30.25
Rebounds: 12.5
Assists: 2.4
Blocks: 1.3
Steals: 1.1
FG%: 49.4%
3pt%: 43.6%
FTM: 8.9
FTA: 9.9
FT%: 89.3

Nowitzki is also 4-0 in game sevens thus far in his career (and most would agree that game sevens are the most "clutch" environment in basketball)

[ZB9]

Re: Clutch

Unfortunately, when Dirk's team needed him the most (in the Finals), he was MIA.

just noticed this post and had to reset it lol

Did you actually watch that series? It would be ridiculous to hold the one sided WWE crap in that series against Dirk

like I said earlier, Dirk's go ahead shot with 9 seconds left in game 5 was about as "clutch" as you can get...but Wade was bailed out with a whistle and a phantom foul with 1.8 seconds left so he is "clutch".

If that bogus whistle wouldnt have been blown, Dallas would have won the series and Dirk would have been series MVP. Anyway, Stern's zebras had other ideas.

Dirk is actually a good example of a scorer whose field goal percentage decreases as the game goes on.

that is probably because everybody knows at the end of games it's going to be a Terry and Dirk pick and roll every set down the stretch. It's been predictable for the past number of years. Defenders know where the ball is going. Naturally the FG percentage is going to be lower if the entire defense knows where the ball is going and is focusing on stopping it.

For example, an elite clutch player like Bryant will come through in the clutch about 70% of the time whether it be through a jump shot, snappy pass, or alert defense. Dirk will come through in the clutch about 40% of the time through fadeaways, set shots, and the ocassional drive

Kobe has been consistently the most "clutch" player in the league over recent years imo, but Dirk's FG% percentage in the clutch is actually higher than Kobes. That is misleading though because Kobe takes a higher number of clutch shots than anyone. Dirk takes more than most, but not as many as Kobe.

Both players are predictable go to guys at the end of games, so neither one is going to have the highest FG percentage. Give either player a Paul Pierce to take some attention and their FG percentage would raise. Kobe's FG% was much higher when he had Shaq.

(his passes are noticeably sloppier in crunch time).

you clearly dont watch the games. Dirk is extremely efficient when it comes to turnovers in crunch time, and the facts back that up every year. This season was no different.

Out of 82games.com's top "clutch players" this year, Dirk was second only to Melo when it comes to fewest turnovers.

here are the T/O numbers

Kobe: 3.0
James: 4.8
Melo: 1.2
Wade: 4.2
Paul: 4.6
Robinson: 2.1
Roy: 2.5
Dirk: 1.5
Pierce: 4.1

[SEGA_LOYAL_FAN]

Re: Clutch

Easy.

1. Wade
2. Kobe
Lebron
Billups
Carmelo

Everyone else after 1 2.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Clutch

Since we have so many stat heads in here, someone should go to a website that lists 4th quarter shooting percentages. Report back to me on Nowitzki's percentage in the 4th quarter. I imagine it takes a nosedive based on all the games I have seen this year.

How bout you do the same for Vince since he's this big choker who disappears in big games now.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Clutch

I pretty much agree with with the common sentiments.

In no particular order..

Vince: Yes, he's got some dog in him, but when he is actually interested in the outcome of the game, he's as dangerous a shooter/scorer, in late game situations as anyone.

Ray Allen: If I need 1 guy for a last second catch and shoot situation, he's it.

Lebron: Puts constant pressure on his defender and the referees in late game situations. Impossible to keep out of the lane 1 on 1....foul drawing machine.

Kobe: The Tiger Woods of the NBA- He's the best shot maker in the league. He takes and makes, some really difficult shots. Can get to the foul line late in games in either off of shot fakes, post move footwork, or off the dribble. Most complete scorer Ive seen..stats may not bear it out, but he's the guy I'd fear the most, late in the game.

Dirk: I dont think he gets enough credit. He shed the "soft euro" stereotype, a few years ago. Dude has a legit competitive fire, and is a legitmate franchise guy

[Da_Czar]

Re: Clutch

Kobe's clutch ability on game-winners is certainly overrated, as the numbers back up. The thing is that he ALWAYS takes that shot for the Lakers (1 assist in a game-winning situation in the last 8 seasons), so everyone knows what's coming, making his shots considerably tougher than with other players who switch up their attack in these situations. He's almost always taking a contested 2 or a contested 3 (depending on what they need) after basically just dribbling out the clock -- that's an incredibly tough shot, and in the case of the 2, is literally the worst shot in basketball. But that's his steez, and he likes nothing more than making the worst shot in the world to win the game, so that's what he does... the 25% is self-inflicted.

But give me a more efficient shot anyday. LeBron gets the majority of his GW shots at the rack, so playing the percentages (which is the smart move), he's the clear choice, especially considering his rate of drawing fouls, which is an even more efficient way to win the game.

EDIT: Whoops, double post... thought the first one didn't take for some reason.

Stumble you have a great argument backed up by stats. The only thing I would say is that with all that your man is at home right now doing what were doing... Waching. LOL I know I know thats not the topic just thought it was funny.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Clutch

Heh yeah... a coach refusing to make adjustments against one of the best opposing coaches in the game will do that to you despite having absolutely un****witable numbers throughout the playoffs.

Poor guy, I'd almost feel sorry for him if he weren't presently diving into a room that holds his giant pile of money Scrooge McDuck style.