Clutch

[KG]

Re: Clutch

Anyone who's open and has a great look. It's not like Bill Wennington or Steve Kerr were an All-Stars but Jordan trusted them when they were wide open. With all the attention Kobe gets in these types of situations you'd think a teammate would be wide open more than once in 56 game winning situations. It's really a generalization unless we view tape of every single one of the 56 situations but it's very surpsing that he has only one dime during that period. I'm not expecting him to have 7-10 assists in those situations but one seems pretty extreme.

To a certain extent. Jordan still took by far the most game winners and missed the most. Outside of the famous shots Kerr & Paxson hit I can't remember MJ passing. Hell, I can't remember Pippen taking 1 game winning shot while MJ was there. Granted I can't remember half of his games but like you said, you'd have to review game tape to break down every play and that still leaves a degree of interpretation as to what is "open".

[AlexBrady]

Re: Clutch

Good thread. Excelling under intense pressure is a key part of being sucessful in the NBA. Losers and winners are exposed in these situations. Excelling in the clutch is more than just knocking down buzzer beaters but for now I will just focus on the clutch shot makers.

My Top Clutch Performers: "Give em the ball!"

Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
Paul Pierce
Manu Ginobli
Chauncey Billups
Hedo Turkoglu
Brandon Roy
Steve Nash

My Worst Clutch Performers: "For the love of God don't let them touch the ball!"

Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Mo Williams
Vince Carter
Jason Terry
Antawn Jamison
Peja Stojakovic

Oh yes, much more credence is given to players who perform under pressure IN THE PLAYOFFS. Dirk doesn't earn kudos for hitting game winners against the Pacers and 76ers in January and February.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Clutch

How many Nets games have you actually watched to put Vince there? Just curious.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Clutch

And since this thread is focusing on guys "you want to take the last shot", other than the 3 against Phoenix, what other clutch shots has Duncan hit?

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Clutch

AlexBrady, I guess you forgot about the time that Dirk dropped 50 points on the Suns in Game 5 of the 2006 Western Conference Finals, including 22 in the fourth quarter to gain a commanding 3-2 lead for his team.

Or when he single-handedly drove the Mavericks past the Spurs in that same year in Game 7, with an unbelievable performance, including a three point play that saved the season.

Or the fact that Dirk's playoff numbers are even HIGHER than his regular season numbers.

....I guess it's convenient to forget.

As for the rest of your list, Jason Terry has hit way too many huge shots in the fourth quarter to be on that list. So has Vince Carter.

[ZB9]

Re: Clutch

Oh yes, much more credence is given to players who perform under pressure IN THE PLAYOFFS. Dirk doesn't earn kudos for hitting game winners against the Pacers and 76ers in January and February.

if that is the case, then there arent many players in the league that earn kudos for hitting playoff game winners.

here are the current league leaders when it comes to playoff game winning shots. You have select company with only eight players, all of them all stars, with at least two makes.

NBA Average: 45/159 .283

Kobe Bryant: 4/8 .500
Lebron James: 4/8 .500
Dirk Nowitzki: 3/6 .500
Dwayne Wade: 2/2 1.000
Caron Butler: 2/3 .667
Gilbert Arenas: 2/5 .400
Tim Duncan: 2/6 .333
Manu Ginobili: 2/6 .333
Chauncey Billups: 2/9 .222

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm (scroll down to the bottom of page)

but dont let the facts get in your way AlexBrady. You probably need to watch more games.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Clutch

How many Nets games have you actually watched to put Vince there? Just curious.

Nets games this year? Upwards of 60.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Clutch

And since this thread is focusing on guys "you want to take the last shot", other than the 3 against Phoenix, what other clutch shots has Duncan hit?

How about the fallaway jumper before Fisher's 0.4?

[AlexBrady]

Re: Clutch

Who could forget Duncan having to drag his choking dog of a teammate through fourth quarter after fourth quarter against the Knicks and Nets?

Dirk is just as liable to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7cG9NrfhM0

as he is to come through

[AlexBrady]

Re: Clutch

AlexBrady, I guess you forgot about the time that Dirk dropped 50 points on the Suns in Game 5 of the 2006 Western Conference Finals, including 22 in the fourth quarter to gain a commanding 3-2 lead for his team.

Or when he single-handedly drove the Mavericks past the Spurs in that same year in Game 7, with an unbelievable performance, including a three point play that saved the season.

Or the fact that Dirk's playoff numbers are even HIGHER than his regular season numbers.

....I guess it's convenient to forget.

As for the rest of your list, Jason Terry has hit way too many huge shots in the fourth quarter to be on that list. So has Vince Carter.

Indeed, that was a true superstar game from Nowitzki. Both Carter and Terry are prone to pressure induced seizures in the clutch.

[ZB9]

Re: Clutch

Who could forget Duncan having to drag his choking dog of a teammate through fourth quarter after fourth quarter against the Knicks and Nets?

Dirk is just as liable to do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7cG9NrfhM0

as he is to come through

I guess you hold Dirk to a different standard than other players in the league

Kobe, Lebron, and Dirk are the only players currently in the league that have hit at least THREE game winners in the playoffs. That is a fact, not an opinion.

Kobe Bryant: 4/8 .500
Lebron James: 4/8 .500
Dirk Nowitzki: 3/6 .500

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Clutch

Is he really?

Because his playoff averages for FT% goes up from 87.2% in the regular season to 92.5%.

His FG% goes from 47.2% to 51.8%

His PPG goes from 22.7, to 26.8.

His RPG goes from 8.6 to 10.1.

Can we put this nonsense to rest already? In the playoffs, everything is "clutch".

Kobe missed clutch free throws yesterday too (that he never deserved to have anyway, but that's another issue). Are we going to throw his accomplishments away too?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Clutch

How about the fallaway jumper before Fisher's 0.4?

So 2 shots automatically put him that category?

Remember, the question the OP asked is who would you let take the LAST SHOT. I highly doubt folks are going to be running plays for Duncan to come off screens or for him to create space for himself to shoot a GW.

Nets games this year? Upwards of 60.

Overall, not just this year.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Clutch

Oh and let's ignore the FACT, that Vince single handedly knocked the 3 seeded Raptors out of the playoffs and that he just about carried that Nets team to the playoffs that year. I guess that's something only chokers can do.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Clutch

So 2 shots automatically put him that category?

Remember, the question the OP asked is who would you let take the LAST SHOT. I highly doubt folks are going to be running plays for Duncan to come off screens or for him to create space for himself to shoot a GW.

Yes, I know. I was just giving an example of another shot. Duncan's a clutch performer, AND a clutch-time performer, but not necessarily a "last shot" performer. His two main shots were more lucky than clutch.