The LeBron James Thread

[Dice]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

THEY WERE NEVER IN THIS SITUATION WHICH MAKES IT COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL WITH NO FACTUAL BASIS

Lebron said that he wasn't going to leave to pair up with another superstar and go ring chasing. Chris Bosh said he wants to be his teams #1 option. Jordan said he was retiring...twice.

What people say they will do rarely holds up. Saying what they would have done is pure hindsight that they'd never have to prove.

Jordan, Bird, and Magic didn't have to leave in free agency to make a super team. They were already on them. Boston and Chicago won about 50 games without Jordan and Bird and the Lakers won 54 with Magic missing more than half the season.

None of them have any concept of what James and Wade were dealing with.



How do people even know that Lebron will be playing second fiddle?

I see this far more as a Magic/Kareem situation than a Jordan/Pippin team.

So your basically saying that they are hypocrites on this topic? I cannot assume that just because Jordan decided to come back twice from retirement.

If they said they wouldn't do it then why accuse them as liars? Yeah, we can't prove that unless they were in the situation BUT I thought the rule was innocent until proven guilty?

And as far as the Magic/Kareem comparison, there was always a number one option in that duo. The difference is, that it changed during the years. Yes, the Magic/Kareem combo is different from the Jordan/Pippen combo because Jordan was always the number one option. In the Magic/Kareem situation, Kareem was the number one option for the first 6 years they play together. Then the last four years, Magic was the number one option.

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

THEY WERE NEVER IN THIS SITUATION WHICH MAKES IT COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL WITH NO FACTUAL BASIS

Lebron said that he wasn't going to leave to pair up with another superstar and go ring chasing. Chris Bosh said he wants to be his teams #1 option. Jordan said he was retiring...twice.

What people say they will do rarely holds up. Saying what they would have done is pure hindsight that they'd never have to prove.

Jordan, Bird, and Magic didn't have to leave in free agency to make a super team. They were already on them. Boston and Chicago won about 50 games without Jordan and Bird and the Lakers won 54 with Magic missing more than half the season.

None of them have any concept of what James and Wade were dealing with.



How do people even know that Lebron will be playing second fiddle?

I see this far more as a Magic/Kareem situation than a Jordan/Pippin team.

I hear your general point about how thought processes go and change, situations, etc, etc. However there is reason the situation is compared to Jordan's. Had the Cavs won this year he would've been on pace with Jordan's Bulls. Considering he's the reigning 2 time MVP and just left a team that had the best record in the league 2 years in a row, I think even with that year of difference it's very similar to Jordan's situation.

I don't think what Jordan says matters bc A)James isn't wired like Jordan, B)Jordan's now an owner so no telling what his motivation is to curb his words however he chooses and C)he's got nothing to do with this. But the situation is similar to his with the Bulls.

The Bird quote is significant bc of the kid that refused to accept the idea that Bird would not have teamed up with Magic. And even with your statements that I understand I still stand by Bird never teaming up with Magic. Just wouldn't have happened. Leaving Boston in a different situation? Possibly... especially if Indiana could recruit him. But never would've gone to LA and never would've played with Magic... especially after the NCAA championship game.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

THEY WERE NEVER IN THIS SITUATION WHICH MAKES IT COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL WITH NO FACTUAL BASIS

Lebron said that he wasn't going to leave to pair up with another superstar and go ring chasing. Chris Bosh said he wants to be his teams #1 option. Jordan said he was retiring...twice.

What people say they will do rarely holds up. Saying what they would have done is pure hindsight that they'd never have to prove.

Jordan, Bird, and Magic didn't have to leave in free agency to make a super team. They were already on them. Boston and Chicago won about 50 games without Jordan and Bird and the Lakers won 54 with Magic missing more than half the season.

None of them have any concept of what James and Wade were dealing with.



How do people even know that Lebron will be playing second fiddle?

I see this far more as a Magic/Kareem situation than a Jordan/Pippin team.

Like I've said before, if the teams weren't great situations and they weren't winning I don't think the guys would have stayed either. However this goes back to the same point of the LeBron issue from the start, no one is faulting anyone for leaving, the fact is Jordan would not have teamed up with Magic or Bird, period. The factual basis for it is the fact that Jordan is probably the most competitive person on planet Earth. EVERYTHING is a competition to that dude. He can't just golf, he has to make a challenge out of it with million dollar bets and ****. He can't just be an owner and sign checks or an President and make decisions on personnel, he's gotta get out on the floor and compete with the kids half his age. He can't just go into the HOF like everyone else, he's gotta go at guys for **** that happened 20-30 years prior.

Why I think Magic wouldn't leave LA to team up with a Bird or Jordan? Because Magic absolutely LOVED the Lakers and Los Angeles. The lifestyle of LA stuck it's claws into him and didn't let go, I don't think he'd have been able to leave that if he wanted to. That and a 23 year contract kinda meant he wasn't going anywhere soon.

Bird. Larry Bird was like Michael. That guy was a competitor and he set goals and stuck to them and was a loyal person. The only way he would've left Boston if things got completely sour between him and management and he was such a home body that he'd probably not go anywhere but home to Indiana.

The thing is that's the difference between the situations is that IF those guys would have ever left they're teams, they would have went to teams that had solid, winning PIECES on them that needed a player like them to put them over the top and still preserved the sweet taste of beating THE GUYS in the league.

As for what LeBron and Wade 'were dealing with' come on give me a break. I feel so bad for LeBron having to deal with being on a team that won 66 and 62 games in back to back years which resulted in an MVP in each season (at least one of which had him accepting the award with those bums people call his supporting cast surrounding him cause he wanted them there to share the award) and quitting before his team could get one more crack at the Orlando team that beat them the year before.

Yes, let's all shed tears for Wade winning a championship in 2006 then get hurt for two years afterwards only to be healthy during the time his buddy Pat started gutting the team to make his and Bron's dream come true in 2010. What they 'were dealing with' is things that are in some part, they're own doing. Really can't say that there's some kind of sympathy here for them.

[Cebby]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

So your basically saying that they are hypocrites on this topic? I cannot assume that just because Jordan decided to come back twice from retirement.

If they said they wouldn't do it then why accuse them as liars? Yeah, we can't prove that unless they were in the situation BUT I thought the rule was innocent until proven guilty?

I'm not saying they're lying, I'm saying that neither has any idea of what they'd actually do in this situation.

I can say that I would have never dropped out of high school because I grew up in a comfortable suburban environment, but if I was growing up in Baltimore with a heroin addicted mother and no money, dropping out and selling drugs probably wouldn't sound so bad.

Maybe Jordan or Bird would have stayed with the Bulls or Celtics if their #2 and 3 options were Mo Williams and Tawn instead of All NBA players. I doubt it though.

The Bird quote is significant bc of the kid that refused to accept the idea that Bird would not have teamed up with Magic. And even with your statements that I understand I still stand by Bird never teaming up with Magic. Just wouldn't have happened. Leaving Boston in a different situation? Possibly... especially if Indiana could recruit him. But never would've gone to LA and never would've played with Magic... especially after the NCAA championship game.

Which is why this is a poinitless discussion.

Magic and Bird had bad blood between them before they even went to the NBA. I don't think that Lebron and Wade have even played each other in the playoffs.

Bird may have rather played against Magic, but he clearly preferred to play with other All NBA players. Same with Magic and Jordan.

Would people really feel any different if, instead of teaming up with Wade he instead somehow joined Howard and Deron Williams?

No matter what Lebron did he'd be getting bashed.

Miami-He only wants to win unselfishly (as if this is the worst thing to be said about a player)
New York-He only wants money
Chicago-He wants to be Jordan
Cleveland-He's afraid of New York or Chicago
LA-He's trying to be better than Kobe

[Dice]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

I'm not saying they're lying, I'm saying that neither has any idea of what they'd actually do in this situation.

I can say that I would have never dropped out of high school because I grew up in a comfortable suburban environment, but if I was growing up in Baltimore with a heroin addicted mother and no money, dropping out and selling drugs probably wouldn't sound so bad.

Maybe Jordan or Bird would have stayed with the Bulls or Celtics if their #2 and 3 options were Mo Williams and Tawn instead of All NBA players. I doubt it though.

Well, your looking at it from two different perspectives. Of course, people's thought process would change if they had a different upbringing. Just like in the example you stated about growing up in the suburb and growing up in Baltimore. BUT those two should not be confused because the LeBron free agent situation has nothing to do with his upbringing. NOW, his upbringing might have an effect on his free agent decision BUT the decision had no effect on how he grew up.

Maybe if Jordan/Bird/Magic was straight-from-high school players and constantly having 'enablers' telling them what to do then yes their thought process changes. BUT they didn't come up that way. They all went to college for at least two years, they all had strong male role models(particularly their fathers) in their lives and they all had people surrounding them who helped them in their careers. And not their childhood friends telling them what to do.

NOW, take them with their UPBRINGINGS and put them in the same SITUATION as LeBron and I strongly believe they wouldn't do it.

[jeebs9]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

^^I like that^^

And never thought of that angle. I've always thought college players were always a little more tough in that sense. College brings a lot of thing in the picture. I mean damn...LeBron had a camera in his face since 16 years old. Its really tough.

[NovaStar]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Everybody is believing what they want to believe.

There are no facts when it comes to this subject; everything is hypothetical.

Magic was drafted to a team with a top 5 player of all time who won the MVP Magic's rookie year and had the #1 overall pick during his fourth year.

Bird joined a team with three other Hall of Famers and in his second season the Celtics aquired #3 and #8 overall players who would later be in the Hall of Fame and for his final championship and best overall team the Celtics would acquire a former MVP and #1 overall pick who would win the sixth man of the year.

Jordan played with Pippin, Grant, Rodman, and several other great role players who have been discussed several times over.

If Lebron was in one of those situations he probably wouldn't have gone to Miami either.

If Bird, Jordan, or Magic were in the position of being in the league for 7 years with a mediocre roster they might have signed a 6 year extension with their teams or might have bolted for another team. The reality is that none of us have any idea what would have happened.

I disagree. It is not hypthetical to understand the nature of men and things. Example, to say that an alpha male rules any pack of wolves is not opinion or hypo, it is a known fact. The question is who is an alpha? Once that question is answered, you would already know what an alpha would do.

Jordan is an alpha, he would not (then or now) clik up with another leader of a team! Niether would Bird, Magic or Barkley. This is what many of us have been saying before Jordan ever spoke about this, because we know what Jordan is.

To further the point and to show that alpha males stand through time, Kobe would not do it either. Kobe is an alpha, he would never join a team where he can't be the man, at least not in his prime. A.I. is another one.

It is not about it being a different NBA it is about the men that play the game, some men are Alpha's, the truly great ones with great legacy's. Lebron is not one of those. He might be a Sigma, Delta, Kappa, or Epsilon but he aint no Alpha.

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

I'm not saying they're lying, I'm saying that neither has any idea of what they'd actually do in this situation.

I can say that I would have never dropped out of high school because I grew up in a comfortable suburban environment, but if I was growing up in Baltimore with a heroin addicted mother and no money, dropping out and selling drugs probably wouldn't sound so bad.

Maybe Jordan or Bird would have stayed with the Bulls or Celtics if their #2 and 3 options were Mo Williams and Tawn instead of All NBA players. I doubt it though.

Which is why this is a poinitless discussion.

Magic and Bird had bad blood between them before they even went to the NBA. I don't think that Lebron and Wade have even played each other in the playoffs.

Bird may have rather played against Magic, but he clearly preferred to play with other All NBA players. Same with Magic and Jordan.

Would people really feel any different if, instead of teaming up with Wade he instead somehow joined Howard and Deron Williams?

No matter what Lebron did he'd be getting bashed.

Miami-He only wants to win unselfishly (as if this is the worst thing to be said about a player)
New York-He only wants money
Chicago-He wants to be Jordan
Cleveland-He's afraid of New York or Chicago
LA-He's trying to be better than Kobe

The thing is in terms of "Bird joining Magic" you're jumping in on the tail end of a discussion. That was a post that someone made, and I'm not trying to call the kid out but it was a ludicrous statement on many levels that some of us responded to. I'm sure Dice's inclusion of Bird's quote was more proof for that specific discussion. Now that discussion was an extension of the overall discussion but as I said in my first response to the post in question, it's just a horrible example to use whether the point is a good one or not.

As for James going to play with Deron or Howard, I think you're projecting. There really hasn't been a Cavs fan in here you're debating with so I think it's safe to say that all of us would feel differently if he went anywhere else besides the Lakers.

And easy on B'more, DC boy. Baltimore has suburbs too and the areas of the city you're talking about in your example are no worse than Southeast DC. Your parents wouldn't have needed to move that far up 95 to get the effect you're going for there.

[Cebby]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

And easy on B'more, DC boy. Baltimore has suburbs too and the areas of the city you're talking about in your example are no worse than Southeast DC. Your parents wouldn't have needed to move that far up 95 to get the effect you're going for there.

I'm aware of all that. You could substitute Baltimore for any city. I just chose Baltimore because I had just watched an episode of The Wire.

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

I'm aware of all that. You could substitute Baltimore for any city. I just chose Baltimore because I had just watched an episode of The Wire.

And I just replied bc I'm a homer.

PLUG: The Wire, uncut, on the 101 channel if you have directv. Almost forgot how great that show is.

Anyway, sorry for going OT. Just had to defend my city.

[jeebs9]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Its a new Era to me. Don't be surprised if Kobe resigns next year to get les money to sign more supporting players (especially if Fisher retirer lol)

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Its a new Era to me. Don't be surprised if Kobe resigns next year to get les money to sign more supporting players (especially if Fisher retirer lol)

I don't think that's anything new... or bad.

[Jukeman]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

The thing is in terms of "Bird joining Magic" you're jumping in on the tail end of a discussion. That was a post that someone made, and I'm not trying to call the kid out but it was a ludicrous statement on many levels that some of us responded to. I'm sure Dice's inclusion of Bird's quote was more proof for that specific discussion. Now that discussion was an extension of the overall discussion but as I said in my first response to the post in question, it's just a horrible example to use whether the point is a good one or not.

As for James going to play with Deron or Howard, I think you're projecting. There really hasn't been a Cavs fan in here you're debating with so I think it's safe to say that all of us would feel differently if he went anywhere else besides the Lakers.

And easy on B'more, DC boy. Baltimore has suburbs too and the areas of the city you're talking about in your example are no worse than Southeast DC. Your parents wouldn't have needed to move that far up 95 to get the effect you're going for there.

Im prolly "the kid" (since I was heavy on the subject) but to clearify...

I didnt start that discussion, someone posted that "Magic and Bird" wouldnt have join forces (which people already mention including myself a number of times that it is not a good example and is a horrible comparison)


However, I just presented a hypothetical situation that may drive the two to want to play with each other...

I still stand by my opinion

But that was last week...

[King_B_Mack]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

No matter what Lebron did he'd be getting bashed.

Miami-He only wants to win unselfishly (as if this is the worst thing to be said about a player)
New York-He only wants money
Chicago-He wants to be Jordan
Cleveland-He's afraid of New York or Chicago
LA-He's trying to be better than Kobe

I still think we're all arguing different things here and some of us are just saying things to justify our opinions. This couldn't be further from the truth especially. People were pulling for Cleveland to keep LeBron if they're team didn't get him, some people actually pulling for that OVER they're team cause it would be better for the league. So to say that he'd be getting bashed for staying in Cleveland with the reasoning of being scared of NY or CHI is laughable. The only flack he'd get for leaving Cleveland for NY or CHI or NJ somewhere would be from Cleveland fans upset about him leaving and it wouldn't be anywhere near what it is from them right now (unless of course it was still done on national TV).

[Kashanova]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Its a new Era to me. Don't be surprised if Kobe resigns next year to get les money to sign more supporting players (especially if Fisher retirer lol)

No way in hell that happens

Kobe Bryant signed a three-year contract extension Friday worth nearly $90 million that will keep him with the Los Angeles Lakers through the 2013-14 season.

The deal will begin after next season. Bryant is making $23 million this season and is due to earn $24.8 million next season.

"It's very rare to have a player play his entire career in one city, so I'm very excited," he said after the Lakers beat Utah 106-92.

Bryant could earn $27.4 million in 2011-12, $30.2 million the following season and more than $32 million in his final year, when he would be 35.