The LeBron James Thread

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  • da ThRONe
    Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
    • Mar 2009
    • 8528

    #9436
    Re: The LeBron James Thread

    Originally posted by wwharton
    In streetball if there are 20 people waiting to get on, then yes I want a team that has a chance of sticking around. But otherwise, I'd much rather play a competitive game than have the best team in history that doesn't even have to play seriously to beat every other possible match up. I don't know if I'm the exception but I don't think so... not meant as a metaphor here, just don't think it's a good example.

    I don't think T-Mac is a good example either. I don't think anybody thought TMac was ever the best player in the league, let alone someone with a chance at being the best player in history. "T-Mac at a higher level" doesn't make much sense. If T-Mac was at a higher level then he would've won some more games and wouldn't be appropriate for the example. If anything the reason this goes around in circles is there is no comparison. Maybe Shaq, but we all know his reasons of going to LA were different, and he joined a team that ended up working like Jordan's Bulls more than this year's Heat (in that Scottie and Kobe ended up being great but no one knew how good they'd be when they joined the team).
    Jordan only waited 3years before Pip got there. He was able to play and understand how talented his Robin was. LeBron's Robin wasn't on the team and there were no guarentee they would be able to draft or recruit said "Robin".

    It's not fair to judge LeBron competitive drive as far as leaving compared to other players. Pretty much every all-time great either went to another team in search of a ring or had the pieces already in place or had those pieces land on their respective teams in the prime of their career's.
    You looking at the Chair MAN!

    Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

    Comment

    • jeebs9
      Fear is the Unknown
      • Oct 2008
      • 47568

      #9437
      Re: The LeBron James Thread

      Originally posted by wwharton
      In streetball if there are 20 people waiting to get on, then yes I want a team that has a chance of sticking around. But otherwise, I'd much rather play a competitive game than have the best team in history that doesn't even have to play seriously to beat every other possible match up. I don't know if I'm the exception but I don't think so... not meant as a metaphor here, just don't think it's a good example.

      I don't think T-Mac is a good example either. I don't think anybody thought TMac was ever the best player in the league, let alone someone with a chance at being the best player in history. "T-Mac at a higher level" doesn't make much sense. If T-Mac was at a higher level then he would've won some more games and wouldn't be appropriate for the example. If anything the reason this goes around in circles is there is no comparison. Maybe Shaq, but we all know his reasons of going to LA were different, and he joined a team that ended up working like Jordan's Bulls more than this year's Heat (in that Scottie and Kobe ended up being great but no one knew how good they'd be when they joined the team).

      T-Mac isn't a good example at all. But could you have imagine LeBron on this years Cavs team? He probably would have dropped the same big numbers finished between 2-5 seed. But came up short in the playoffs again.
      Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
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      • wwharton
        *ll St*r
        • Aug 2002
        • 26949

        #9438
        Re: The LeBron James Thread

        Originally posted by da ThRONe
        Pippen never said LBJ was better than MJ just that he had the potential(which he does). Jordan to date is the best scorer. Is Jordan an all-time great passer? Nope. Is he the greatest defender? Nope. Not only do I think there's nothing wrong with Scottie comment I agree whole heartedly with them.
        Actually that's exactly what he said. It's been quoted, there's audio, it's in this thread, etc. "Jordan is the greatest scorer ever, Lebron may be the greatest player ever." You can pull up tweets or interviews of him trying to dial it back a bit after the fact but those were his exact words originally.

        And yes, Jordan was considered a great passer in the same sense that Lebron is (he's such a great scorer that the attention he draws opens up passing lanes that he's more than capable of taking advantage of).

        Yes, Jordan was considered a great defender... best in the NBA for many of his years playing. I don't remember how old you are but I know you're kind of young, in the sense that you probably didn't actually see Jordan play much in his prime. Speaking along with all the others that have posted that lived through that, yes, Jordan was THAT good.

        Originally posted by da ThRONe
        Jordan only waited 3years before Pip got there. He was able to play and understand how talented his Robin was. LeBron's Robin wasn't on the team and there were no guarentee they would be able to draft or recruit said "Robin".

        It's not fair to judge LeBron competitive drive as far as leaving compared to other players. Pretty much every all-time great either went to another team in search of a ring or had the pieces already in place or had those pieces land on their respective teams in the prime of their career's.
        What the hell does any of this have to do with my post? Not even commenting any more about that bc my post was pretty clear... and clearly not an attempt to continue this discussion you want to have.

        Originally posted by jeebs9
        T-Mac isn't a good example at all. But could you have imagine LeBron on this years Cavs team? He probably would have dropped the same big numbers finished between 2-5 seed. But came up short in the playoffs again.
        That's possible. However I'm not sure what team in the East besides possibly the Bulls I'd say the Cavs couldn't beat in that situation. The Knicks ended up being without Billups and Amare for a good part of their games, The Celtics had Rondo at less than 50%. The Sixers have promise going forward but really just aren't that good at this point, and Orlando was a mess... I'd pick them over Atlanta too.

        Since we're talking specifically about this year, there's no reason to think the Cavs with Lebron couldn't have at least gotten to the ECFs. Now lets consider the other Cavs that left and other moves they would've made if Lebron stayed. Lets also consider the effect of last year and ALL of the injuries they had this year on the team that would've been different had he stayed. There's just as much reason to believe they would've gone far into the playoffs, especially considering how "average" the East teams ended up being at the end of the day.

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        • da ThRONe
          Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
          • Mar 2009
          • 8528

          #9439
          Re: The LeBron James Thread

          Originally posted by wwharton
          Actually that's exactly what he said. It's been quoted, there's audio, it's in this thread, etc. "Jordan is the greatest scorer ever, Lebron may be the greatest player ever." You can pull up tweets or interviews of him trying to dial it back a bit after the fact but those were his exact words originally.
          He said "May be" not LeBron "IS" the greatest.



          And yes, Jordan was considered a great passer in the same sense that Lebron is (he's such a great scorer that the attention he draws opens up passing lanes that he's more than capable of taking advantage of).

          Yes, Jordan was considered a great defender... best in the NBA for many of his years playing. I don't remember how old you are but I know you're kind of young, in the sense that you probably didn't actually see Jordan play much in his prime. Speaking along with all the others that have posted that lived through that, yes, Jordan was THAT good.
          I know Jordan is a great defender, but Pippen was better. So he wasn't the best defender on his own team. All-time great defender yes. The best defender of all-time probably not in my top 20.

          Jordan was a decent passer but I wouldn't even put him in all-time great there at all.



          What the hell does any of this have to do with my post? Not even commenting any more about that bc my post was pretty clear... and clearly not an attempt to continue this discussion you want to have.
          I was just saying that being able to atleast have that talent in house you can atleast know he's there.
          Last edited by da ThRONe; 05-31-2011, 12:25 PM.
          You looking at the Chair MAN!

          Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #9440
            Re: The LeBron James Thread

            Originally posted by da ThRONe
            He said "May be" not LeBron "IS" the greatest.
            He made a point to say Jordan is the greatest "scorer" before his statement. It was a slight to Jordan no matter what he said after that. He knows it too, which is why he fumbled left and right to try to clarify later. Everyone else knows it too or else it wouldn't be the talk of the media ever since it happened a week ago. Did you listen to the actual interview or are you just dissecting the words? All the "If James does this" and "If James does that" didn't come until after the world was discussing what he said. Not to mention he was commenting on the current playoffs, not James' place in history.

            I know Jordan is a great defender, but Pippen was better. So he wasn't the best defender on his own team. All-time great defender yes. The best defender of all-time probably not in my top 20.

            Jordan was a decent passer but I wouldn't even put him in all-time great there at all.
            Not suggesting that one has to watch every second of player to have an opinion but seriously, how much of that Bulls team have you actually seen? How do you know Pippen was better? Personally I'd say they were about equal once Pippen got to that level... it made more sense for Pippen to take the tougher assignments when he got to that point bc of Jordan's role in the offense, but he was still great on D even then. Before Pippen got to that point, Jordan was already great in that regard. I may even go as far as saying Pippen became the defender he did from playing with and watching MJ.

            I don't know what the point is of "top 20" this or that, Jordan was a great defender... a better defender than Lebron to this point. And I wouldn't even say Lebron's a better passer. He's a more willing passer but that doesn't make him better. Jordan's prime years he was shooting 53% and 54% from the field (not to mention 85% from the line). He felt, for good reason, that 9 times out of 10 the best shot was a shot that he was taking... and he still averaged 5 and 6+ assists to go along with 33 ppg.

            Bottom line, this isn't a discussion about "all time great" this or that... you're trying to say Pippen's statement makes sense by discrediting Jordan's defense and passing in relation to James. I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. James is an insane physical specimen, and if he reaches his potential he should be the best player ever. But Jordan reached his potential and then blew the top off into a level no one could even imagine. He said he was going to be a passer and averaged 8 assists a game (to go along with 8 boards and 33 points). He said he was going to be a stopper and won DPOY. Points, FG%, FT%, steals, awards, rings... James does not hold a candle to Jordan. And honestly, all you'd have to do is watch them play to understand the difference.

            It's not like James could never be there, but he most definitely isn't and hasn't done anything even in the playoffs this year to make someone think he's on his way to THAT level.


            I was just saying that being able to atleast have that talent in house you can atleast know he's there.
            Like I said, that has nothing to do with what I wrote. You can argue that stuff with somebody else.

            Comment

            • jeebs9
              Fear is the Unknown
              • Oct 2008
              • 47568

              #9441
              Re: The LeBron James Thread

              I'd still take Jordan over LeBron lol... You can throw all the numbers and opinions out there. Jordan>LeBron lol
              Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
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              • KSUowls
                All Star
                • Jul 2009
                • 5891

                #9442
                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                Originally posted by brahmagoul
                If it wasn't working in Cleveland, they wouldn't have won 60-plus games two straight seasons. And by drive, I mean his competitive nature. Drive might have been the wrong word. If he was a true competitor, he'd want a challenge. Joining up with Wade and Bosh is like using the Game Genie on your Nintendo.
                Winning in the regular season does not equate to winning in the playoffs. Those Cleveland teams weren't that great outside of Lebron, but most importantly is that those teams weren't built to beat teams like Boston and Orlando.

                A competitor is someone who wants to win. They have a drive to win. They will do whatever it takes to win.

                I agree with the person who compared it to street ball. You want to win and so you pick the best players. You may choose 1 guy over another to set matchup problems if the guys you are choosing between are of similar skill, but you're going to put together a team that gives you the best chance of winning.

                I also think people are nitpicking at Pippen's comments based on their perception of Lebron. It didn't seem like he was saying Jordan was just a great scorer. To me he was saying Jordan is the greatest scorer ever and Lebron won't get there. He was also saying Jordan is obviously the greatest ever, but taking all things into account Lebron may be better than Jordan.

                Comment

                • capp34
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 1313

                  #9443
                  Re: The LeBron James Thread

                  Originally posted by KSUowls
                  Winning in the regular season does not equate to winning in the playoffs. Those Cleveland teams weren't that great outside of Lebron, but most importantly is that those teams weren't built to beat teams like Boston and Orlando.

                  A competitor is someone who wants to win. They have a drive to win. They will do whatever it takes to win.

                  I agree with the person who compared it to street ball. You want to win and so you pick the best players. You may choose 1 guy over another to set matchup problems if the guys you are choosing between are of similar skill, but you're going to put together a team that gives you the best chance of winning.

                  I also think people are nitpicking at Pippen's comments based on their perception of Lebron. It didn't seem like he was saying Jordan was just a great scorer. To me he was saying Jordan is the greatest scorer ever and Lebron won't get there. He was also saying Jordan is obviously the greatest ever, but taking all things into account Lebron may be better than Jordan.
                  This cannot be said enough when having these types of discussions.
                  PSN: Capp34

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                  • cquigley
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 1803

                    #9444
                    Originally posted by teddyballgame78
                    Regardless of who's idea the decision was he took part in the antics. LeBron will forever be my most disliked sports figure of all time. The heavy breathing the staring at benches or off into space after he makes a play. The guy acts like the NBA is the WWE and who knows Stern might not be to far from Vince McMahon. All commissioner Stern is doing is giving people what they want a male soap opera nothing more nothing less.

                    Now getting back to LeBron. They guy is the ultimate ME guy and it will keep coming out over the years how this guy thinks he walks on water. I'm still trying to figure out how he get's that huge head of his in American Airlines Arena every night.

                    I don't take anything that guy says seriously. It all about self promotion with LeBron. That's why people dislike him, he and David Stern will be the ruin of the NBA.
                    Basketball is a BUSINESS. When you want more money at work who do you promote? Yourself. Why wouldnt lebron be about him.

                    The man wins games and the man is a team player no matter what you say. Hes a great passer and works for wins.

                    go to espn.com and read Michael wilbons article about lebron. Lebron says he should did the decision differently but NOBODY mentions the good that night on espn did for the girls and boys clubs of america.
                    Philadelphia Phillies-Philadelphia Eagles-PSN:cquigs

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                    • sportyguyfl31
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 4745

                      #9445
                      Re: The LeBron James Thread

                      I think Scottie just articulated himself poorly. Nothing more, nothing less.

                      Comment

                      • mKoz26
                        In case you forgot...
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 4685

                        #9446
                        Re: The LeBron James Thread

                        Originally posted by cquigley
                        go to espn.com and read Michael wilbons article about lebron. Lebron says he should did the decision differently but NOBODY mentions the good that night on espn did for the girls and boys clubs of america.
                        If LeBron really wanted to make the Boys' and Girls' Clubs of America some money, he would've just donated it without the narcissistic, hour-long "interview" where he announced he was going to play for the South Beach Heat. If charity was the intention, he wouldn't need the recognition to feel good about it.
                        Originally posted by sportyguyfl31
                        I think Scottie just articulated himself poorly. Nothing more, nothing less.
                        I totally agree. That may be because I loved Scottie as a player, but I don't think he meant to slight Jordan. Maybe he did, but to me it seemed like poor articulation.
                        Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                        @CDonkey26

                        Originally posted by baumy300
                        Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

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                        • wwharton
                          *ll St*r
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 26949

                          #9447
                          Re: The LeBron James Thread

                          I love Scottie too, but lets not act like he and Jordan were friends. Scottie tried to step his offense up to get a new contract but Jordan had a problem not being top dog so he always had to top him. And "verbal abuse" is probably too tame of a term for what Jordan did to the other players on those teams back in the day. There is no doubt that Scottie respects the hell out of Jordan, but the idea that he may be bitter isn't a huge stretch.

                          I'm just going to stop talking about it, lol. I can't think of any situation where a teammate of a great player that got 6 championships with him would say anything that would even be interpreted as a slight. If you guys don't want to see it, that's cool. I don't think it really matters one way or another so it's not really worth arguing over.

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                          • mKoz26
                            In case you forgot...
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 4685

                            #9448
                            Re: The LeBron James Thread

                            Originally posted by wwharton
                            I love Scottie too, but lets not act like he and Jordan were friends. Scottie tried to step his offense up to get a new contract but Jordan had a problem not being top dog so he always had to top him. And "verbal abuse" is probably too tame of a term for what Jordan did to the other players on those teams back in the day. There is no doubt that Scottie respects the hell out of Jordan, but the idea that he may be bitter isn't a huge stretch.

                            I'm just going to stop talking about it, lol. I can't think of any situation where a teammate of a great player that got 6 championships with him would say anything that would even be interpreted as a slight. If you guys don't want to see it, that's cool. I don't think it really matters one way or another so it's not really worth arguing over.
                            No no, I completely understand where you're coming from. I just see it differently.

                            Jordan was a total dick off (and on) the court. I'm sure the two have had plenty of disagreements in the past.
                            Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                            @CDonkey26

                            Originally posted by baumy300
                            Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

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                            • Yeah...THAT Guy
                              Once in a Lifetime Memory
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 17294

                              #9449
                              Re: The LeBron James Thread

                              I don't understand people that say the cavs werent good enough to beat the celtics considering they were winning the series before they collapsed.
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                              • King_B_Mack
                                All Star
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 24450

                                #9450
                                Re: The LeBron James Thread

                                Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
                                I don't understand people that say the cavs werent good enough to beat the celtics considering they were winning the series before they quit.
                                Fixed that for you.

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