The LeBron James Thread

[CMH]

And he's only 28...



(yes, it's photoshopped. At least the non-MVP trophies)

Can I just say that the NBA has probably the greatest combination of both the most amazing looking trophies and the ugliest looking dingiest things that high schools would be ashamed to hand out.


Sent from my mobile device.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Taj - why do you want to have this convo? You are the only person in this thread who doesn't think what LeBron has been doing is phenomenal.

You asked me why I think he's a dominant player and I told you why. I'm not trying to change your mind, I could care a less how you, or MJ feels about LeBron.

You asked why I have my opinion and I told you why. It's the same reason everybody else here values him that high. Why players and coaches across the league value him that high, and why former legends and former hall-of-fame coaches value him that high.

I'm not going to sit here and have a who has more rings than who argument with you, it's pointless and honestly isn't going to change anybody else in this threads opinion on how great of a player LeBron has become.

honestly man, its just conversation, based on my thoughts and responses to some of the things said in this thread. now you dont wanna have the convo then fine, we can stop. its a thread about basketball, its made for convos, convos we would have face to face. its just happening over a computer.

also thats the thing, you keep saying what i never once said. i never said i didnt like lebron as a player. i never said that i didnt think what he's doing right now wasnt amazing in its own right.

all we really disagree on is that i feel that ppl shouldnt try and put lebron at this point in his career on the level as some of the other top top dogs until he wins more championships, regardless of his other accomplishments. but maybe these types of comments by me say these types of things in your eyes. but that still doesnt change the fact that i never technically said the things your claiming i said.
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maybe you and other folks dont value winning championships at the same level that i do. idk. i respect that if thats your pov. but at the same time i never met ppl b4,who really were into sports that felt this way. so in a way its brand new to me.

its all good juice. its just alil bit of conversation about basketball. but ok, ya boy will stand down for now. plus i got bigger conversations i wanna get into on the boards over the next wk or so that dont involve lebron.

[24]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I understand you value championships and hold them in a higher regard but do you understand that Championships are a team achievement? You could have a player that puts up 30 points and 15 rebounds a night in the playoffs but if the rest of his team is made up of scrubs they are not winning the title. Lebron has not had the luxury of playing with good teams until now.

His Cleveland teams were down right terrible it didn't take a genius to figure out that Lebron carried them year after year. I said this in my prior post all the great champions of NBA history needed their teams. The only finals that I truly remember being won by a single player was when the Bulls won it in 1998.

[jeebs9]

Not even then in my opinion. And that was one of the greatest performances of all time in my opinion. To win a championship you need good teammates period. I watch that series at least once a week.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[ClutchCity]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I give LeBron credit for where he's at in career. But I'm going to always criticize his ability to led because I personally think thats where he gets more creditable than he deserves. He's got 1 championship and that's great, nobody can take it away from him regardless of who was on his team.

Another point, is the fact that this Bill Russell thing is starting to become a excuse. This guy played during an era that nobody in this forum actually viewed. Cmon Russells averages were insane lol.There will never be another player winning 11 championships again.

LeBron failed in Cleveland and I'm sticking to that. People say he didn't have a team, but he had a good enough team to win 40 to 50 plus games a season. I really don't hold that finals against him either, against SA it was his first time, and the Spurs was a great team that year to. I even knew for myself he was going back and was going to be light years better than what he was showing the world in 05-06.

I still want to at least 3 championships outta him before he retires. I mean he's already a legend right now, but I want to see legacy when he leaves the game how MJ did it. And he has those capabilities as a player. This is why I criticize his game so much. So let's see history I guess.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I give LeBron credit for where he's at in career. But I'm going to always criticize his ability to led because I personally think thats where he gets more creditable than he deserves..

Explain this?

[ClutchCity]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Explain this?

Simple the failure that happened before his first 1st ring. The level of expectation wasn't met when it supposed to be. That 1st year in a Miami uniform. The series against Orlando and coming up short while in Cleveland. Some huge letdowns that were supposed to be taken care of by LeBron James. But once again I know this so called he didn't have a team thing goes into factor, but like I said if your winning 50 Plus a season you have a good enough team to compete for a championship.

He's a great player on the court dude I'll give him that, but at times he struggles to just dominate the game when needed. And everyone says LeBron is this phenomenon that's untouchable, and can do everything on the floor like he's a God when he struggles against certain defenses during the moment of where his team could use a basket from him.

[ojandpizza]

know this so called he didn't have a team thing goes into factor, but like I said if your winning 50 Plus a season you have a good enough team to compete for a championship.
.

They did compete for a championship, they just didn't win it.

As for the rest of your post, nobody said the guy is perfect. Every great player has been trough failure in their careers. Hell even Jordan hadn't made it to the finals until he was LeBron's age right now. You act as if winning a title is easy, it's not.

[superjames1992]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

LeBron is the best player in the NBA right now. I don't see how this is even an argument.

Let's be frank, though. He's not better than MJ. At least not yet, though he's got a lot of career left.

[ojandpizza]

honestly man, its just conversation, based on my thoughts and responses to some of the things said in this thread. now you dont wanna have the convo then fine, we can stop. its a thread about basketball, its made for convos, convos we would have face to face. its just happening over a computer.

also thats the thing, you keep saying what i never once said. i never said i didnt like lebron as a player. i never said that i didnt think what he's doing right now wasnt amazing in its own right.

all we really disagree on is that i feel that ppl shouldnt try and put lebron at this point in his career on the level as some of the other top top dogs until he wins more championships, regardless of his other accomplishments. but maybe these types of comments by me say these types of things in your eyes. but that still doesnt change the fact that i never technically said the things your claiming i said.
--------------

maybe you and other folks dont value winning championships at the same level that i do. idk. i respect that if thats your pov. but at the same time i never met ppl b4,who really were into sports that felt this way. so in a way its brand new to me.

its all good juice. its just alil bit of conversation about basketball. but ok, ya boy will stand down for now. plus i got bigger conversations i wanna get into on the boards over the next wk or so that dont involve lebron.

Everyone values winning championships man. But that's not always in the control of one player. I don't throw Wilt Chamberlain out of my all time top 10 just because he only has 2 rings, and I don't put Bill Russell all the way at #1 just because he has 11 of them. Maybe you do.

Nobody is saying that LeBron shouldn't win more rings to greater his legacy, all we are saying is that with what he's done so far he's already in that elite category of the all time great players.

If you don't feel that a player can be in that category without 3-4 rings then that's your opinion. Nobody is trying to say you're wrong for feeling that way. But you keep asking us why we value LeBron so highly and we keep telling you. You act like our answer isn't satisfying for you, when really it doesn't have to be.

[TajDeni]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I understand you value championships and hold them in a higher regard but do you understand that Championships are a team achievement? You could have a player that puts up 30 points and 15 rebounds a night in the playoffs but if the rest of his team is made up of scrubs they are not winning the title. Lebron has not had the luxury of playing with good teams until now.

His Cleveland teams were down right terrible it didn't take a genius to figure out that Lebron carried them year after year. I said this in my prior post all the great champions of NBA history needed their teams. The only finals that I truly remember being won by a single player was when the Bulls won it in 1998.

i thought folks wanted me to not have the convo?

Spoiler

i do understand the value of having a good team around you. (thats why i hate it when folks say kobe couldnt win without shaq). i guess another area where i disagree with the rest of the board is in this idea that lebron didnt have a team around him in cleveland.

i dont know the exact number of wins but in the final 2 yrs of lebrons time in cleveland the cavs had a top 3 record in the league; and i know 4 a fact that 1 of those 2 yrs the cavs had the best record in the entire league and the top seed throughout the entire playoffs. so to me atleast, that does not happen if you dont have a good team around you. it was only after the fact that this idea arose that his teammates werent considered good enough.

also if you look as his teammates seperately then i can see how folks can try to knock his teammates. but the reality is that the cavs as a team were completely designed around lebron skillset. 1 exceptional offensive player who plays the mistro of everything offensively, lots of shooters for him to kick out to, and a team built around great defense.

the cavs hardly ever got blown out of games because they were a tremendous defensive team. this means that your 1 exceptional player would most likely always have an oppertunity to win the game for you in the end because the defense always kept him within striking distance. so imo i do feel that lebron has been given a pass for his last 2yrs in cleveland.

other thoughts about cleveland

Spoiler

also why i dont really hold it against lebron for leaving cleveland, i think that by the time he made the decision the choice was actually already made for him. i also think the media play a very big but indirect role in lebron ultimately having to leave cleveland. let me explaing.

i personally think that lebron wanted to stay in cleveland. but i think he left because he could not convince other players to come play there. i remember hearing stories about lebron personally reaching out to guys like m.redd and ray ray, but these players turning the offer to cme play with him down. when in reality these players would hav been perfect compliments to lebron.

so heres my theory on why they turned lebron down. all my own opinion of course. its also why i beileive boozer left him for the jazz. if your another allstar caliber type player why would you come play with lebron during his cleveland days. when you already know that if the team loses in the playoffs, the national media is going to point the finger at you and say that, lebron still doesnt have a title because you were not a good enough player to help him get over the hump.

and so i think that in a way the media with alway making excuses for lebrons failures in the later cavs yrs actually hampered lebrons ability to recruit other talents to cleveland. i belived the media backed lebron into a corner where he couldnt recurit teammates to come to clevelad and he really had no choice but to leave. tho i dont think that he had to go to miami and create a super team w/ wade and bosh. but i aint too mad at him for that tho.

[ClutchCity]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

LeBron is the best player in the NBA right now. I don't see how this is even an argument.

Let's be frank, though. He's not better than MJ. At least not yet, though he's got a lot of career left.

At least not yet? See that's what I'm saying. It's like people forget how great Jordan was and how he dominated a decade of basketball. Welcome to the new generation where prophecy outweighs fact.

[ojandpizza]

At least not yet? See that's what I'm saying. It's like people forget how great Jordan was and how he dominated a decade of basketball. Welcome to the new generation where prophecy outweighs fact.

Dude nobody in this thread has called LeBron better than Jordan, nobody in here has even called him as good as Jordan. You're getting worked up over nothing man..

He said "at least not yet" because LeBron just won his first ring at the age Jordan won his first ring. It's not completely impossible that LeBron could still end his career with 6 rings and 6 finals MVPs, though its not likely.... IF that happens then anybody wanting to call LeBron as good as Jordan will have a pretty damn good argument.

[ClutchCity]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

i thought folks wanted me to not have the convo?

Spoiler

i do understand the value of having a good team around you. (thats why i hate it when folks say kobe couldnt win without shaq). i guess another area where i disagree with the rest of the board is in this idea that lebron didnt have a team around him in cleveland.

i dont know the exact number of wins but in the final 2 yrs of lebrons time in cleveland the cavs had a top 3 record in the league; and i know 4 a fact that 1 of those 2 yrs the cavs had the best record in the entire league and the top seed throughout the entire playoffs. so to me atleast, that does not happen if you dont have a good team around you. it was only after the fact that this idea arose that his teammates werent considered good enough.



also if you look as his teammates seperately then i can see how folks can try to knock his teammates. but the reality is that the cavs as a team were completely designed around lebron skillset. 1 exceptional offensive player who plays the mistro of everything offensively, lots of shooters for him to kick out to, and a team built around great defense.

the cavs hardly ever got blown out of games because they were a tremendous defensive team. this means that your 1 exceptional player would most likely always have an oppertunity to win the game for you in the end because the defense always kept him within striking distance. so imo i do feel that lebron has been given a pass for his last 2yrs in cleveland.

other thoughts about cleveland

Spoiler

also why i dont really hold it against lebron for leaving cleveland, i think that by the time he made the decision the choice was actually already made for him. i also think the media play a very big but indirect role in lebron ultimately having to leave cleveland. let me explaing.

i personally think that lebron wanted to stay in cleveland. but i think he left because he could not convince other players to come play there. i remember hearing stories about lebron personally reaching out to guys like m.redd and ray ray, but these players turning the offer to cme play with him down. when in reality these players would hav been perfect compliments to lebron.

so heres my theory on why they turned lebron down. all my own opinion of course. its also why i beileive boozer left him for the jazz. if your another allstar caliber type player why would you come play with lebron during his cleveland days. when you already know that if the team loses in the playoffs, the national media is going to point the finger at you and say that, lebron still doesnt have a title because you were not a good enough player to help him get over the hump.

and so i think that in a way the media with alway making excuses for lebrons failures in the later cavs yrs actually hampered lebrons ability to recruit other talents to cleveland. i belived the media backed lebron into a corner where he couldnt recurit teammates to come to clevelad and he really had no choice but to leave. tho i dont think that he had to go to miami and create a super team w/ wade and bosh. but i aint too mad at him for that tho.

Thank you man! Let these Heat fans know. LeBron had a good team during his time in Cleveland. If not they wouldn't have won 45 plus for like 3 years. It's a bunch of crap. When people say that its unbelievably so false, team was built around LeBron and honestly it worked. I just explained that like a page ago. I personally think there is a possibility for him to get championships, Right now. And he doesn't then that's fine he's got 1. It's like LeBron is Jesus to these cats.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

i remember hearing stories about lebron personally reaching out to guys like m.redd and ray ray, but these players turning the offer to cme play with him down.

That's false.

In fact, Michael Redd didn't sign with the Cavs because LeBron did not meet him at the airport.

It's widely known that LeBron did not do any sort of recruiting for the Cavs. Even when he reached out to Trevor Ariza during the 09-10 offseason, he wouldn't go all in and recruit.

Chris Bosh also said he would have come to Cleveland if LeBron told him to.