The future for the NBA?

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Dude in the two years after winning the championship he played 51 games both years and still averaged 27/4/7 in 06-07 and 24/4/6 in 07-08.

Those are good numbers, but relative to the rest of the league they aren't anything special.

Amar'e at that point either, but seriously with the list you named, you're saying he was at the very bottom of the top ten in the league?

Yes

How's he supposed to finish with first team All-NBA when that's pretty much Kobe's spot every year?

1. Guards and forwards are voted as a group, not SG or PG.

2. Wade finished third team in 2007 behind Kobe, Nash, TMac, and Arenas. Yes, he missed some games, but so did they.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Those are good numbers, but relative to the rest of the league they aren't anything special.



Yes



1. Guards and forwards are voted as a group, not SG or PG.

2. Wade finished third team in 2007 behind Kobe, Nash, TMac, and Arenas. Yes, he missed some games, but so did they.

Nash in 06-07 18/3/11 | 07-08 16/3/11

Dirk in 06-07 24/8/3 | 07-08 23/8/3

Paul in 06-07 17/4/8 | 07-08 21/4/11

Amar'e 20/9/1 | 25/9/1

Duncan 20/10/3 | 19/11/2

KG 22/12/4 | 18/9/3

Howard 17/12/1 | 20/14/1

LBJ 27/6/6 | 30/7/7

Kobe 31/5/5 | 28/6/5

Wade 27/4/7 | 24/4/6

His numbers aren't that far off from Kobe and Bron and he played in only 51 games both years. Not like everyone just curbstomped his numbers or something.

[slimm44]

Re: The future for the NBA?

I'm cracking up at this top-5 debate. It's always a subjective argument and somebody could make a case for around 20 players being in the top-5. It's a lose-lose situation and will never find an end.

That being said, I think the Heat have a chance to be the most exciting team to watch, with a chance to win it all, since the mid-90's Bulls due to them having ARGUABLY two of the top 5 wing players in the league in their prime. I surely can't think of a recent combination of a PG, SG, or SF that has the potential they do. While he may not be a "superstar", they also have a go-to big guy in Bosh, which is something MJ and Pip never had. HO G was a good rebounder, was good around the rim and had a nice mid-range jumper, but I think it's safe to say that Bosh is an overall better player than he was.

Off the court, I don't know. We may see a new framework on how to build a championship squad and we may see a method that will never be tried again. To say that a team shouldn't be able to do what they did is ridiculous to me because every team has the ability to do that and as long as no team has an unfair advantage, I say let's see who's able to field the best team. It's not like they had more money to spend than anyone else, they were just in a place cap-wise where they could. With a little work, the Knicks, Bulls, and Nets could have done the same thing. Right-place, right-time kind of thing.

[wwharton]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Im speaking of Bird going to LA not Magic going to Bos...

I not speaking on that time (im pretty sure they spoked on that team anyways) I said[B] [B]BECAME CLOSE on team USA that should have made it obvious to what I am talking about maybe I should have made myself clearer..Smh..

Im comparing a time frame...5-10 years

These guys been in the NBA for 7 years...

You're wrong no matter how you twist it. They weren't friends the first time they went to the Olympics together and they became friends long before the 2nd time. And on the dream team they were so far into their careers that it was like a reunion, all star game type of thing. Bird could barely stand up for more than 10 mins at a time by then.

And the idea of Bird choosing to play in LA (or just LIVE in LA) whether Magic is on the team or not shows you don't know much about Bird. But that's another story. Bird wanted nothing more than to beat Magic at everything. He didn't want to be friends with him.

Off the court, I don't know. We may see a new framework on how to build a championship squad and we may see a method that will never be tried again. To say that a team shouldn't be able to do what they did is ridiculous to me because every team has the ability to do that and as long as no team has an unfair advantage, I say let's see who's able to field the best team. It's not like they had more money to spend than anyone else, they were just in a place cap-wise where they could. With a little work, the Knicks, Bulls, and Nets could have done the same thing. Right-place, right-time kind of thing.

I don't think anybody has a problem with what the team did, it's the players... and more specifically, Lebron.

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

You're wrong no matter how you twist it. They weren't friends the first time they went to the Olympics together and they became friends long before the 2nd time. And on the dream team they were so far into their careers that it was like a reunion, all star game type of thing. Bird could barely stand up for more than 10 mins at a time by then.

And the idea of Bird choosing to play in LA (or just LIVE in LA) whether Magic is on the team or not shows you don't know much about Bird. But that's another story. Bird wanted nothing more than to beat Magic at everything. He didn't want to be friends with him.



I don't think anybody has a problem with what the team did, it's the players... and more specifically, Lebron.

I think you need to read my post word for word and not skim...

I know alot about Bird...

Bird didnt want to be friends yet they were...

[wwharton]

Re: The future for the NBA?

I think you need to read my post word for word and not skim...

I know alot about Bird...

Bird didnt want to be friends yet they were...

Honestly I think you're skimming or ignoring everyone else's posts.

You said: Bird and Magic became friends in the Olympics
Truth: They began becoming friends when they shot the converse commercial YEARS either before or after the Olympics depending on which USA team you're talking about.

You said: Bird would have gone to LA to play with Magic after they became friends (which happened after the Dream Team)
Truth: Bird would never want to play or live anywhere like LA, would never go play for Magic's team as his entire career was centered around being better than Magic AND practically needed a cane during the Dream Team years so is a horrible comparison to some 25 year olds getting together anyway.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Honestly I think you're skimming or ignoring everyone else's posts.

You said: Bird and Magic became friends in the Olympics
Truth: They began becoming friends when they shot the converse commercial YEARS either before or after the Olympics depending on which USA team you're talking about.

You said: Bird would have gone to LA to play with Magic after they became friends (which happened after the Dream Team)
Truth: Bird would never want to play or live anywhere like LA, would never go play for Magic's team as his entire career was centered around being better than Magic AND practically needed a cane during the Dream Team years so is a horrible comparison to some 25 year olds getting together anyway.

Wait when else were Bird and Magic on an Olympic team together? They didn't play on the '76 team that I can remember, they were drafted in '79 and pros weren't allowed to play on the national teams until the Dream Team in '92? I missing something?

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Honestly I think you're skimming or ignoring everyone else's posts.

You said: Bird and Magic became friends in the Olympics
Truth: They began becoming friends when they shot the converse commercial YEARS either before or after the Olympics depending on which USA team you're talking about.

I said they became very close while being on Team USA meaning The Dream Team

You said: Bird would have gone to LA to play with Magic after they became friends (which happened after the Dream Team)
Truth: Bird would never want to play or live anywhere like LA, would never go play for Magic's team as his entire career was centered around being better than Magic AND practically needed a cane during the Dream Team years so is a horrible comparison to some 25 year olds getting together anyway.

I said IMO, I think Bird would have gone to LA with Magic if they had the opp to play with each other...This is 10 years into their career, the rivary was pretty much done, Bird was crippled and with magic was dealing with HIV, it was perfect...Its MY opinion, you may disagree but dont go and act like you statement is the final say because the situation has not happen to them...We just have to agree to disagree

Its only horrible because Magic/Bird >>>LBJ/Wade

Anyway how many young players ended up bang up at 25???

wear and tear > age...

This whole conversation is irrelevant to be honest...

With that said, If all 3 went to Cleveland people would still be crying and saying he needs those guys and his legacy is ruined...

Dude cant win...

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

I said IMO, I think Bird would have gone to LA with Magic if they had the opp to play with each other...This is 10 years into their career, the rivary was pretty much done, Bird was crippled and with magic was dealing with HIV, it was perfect...Its MY opinion, you may disagree but dont go and act like you statement is the final say because the situation has not happen to them...We just have to agree to disagree

Its only horrible because Magic/Bird >>>LBJ/Wade

Anyway how many young players ended up bang up at 25???

This is the thing though man. You're just pulling an opinion out of your backside on Bird going to play with Magic if he had the opportunity. Bird would not have gone to LA because he HATED all the cameras and spotlight and all that other crap. Bird barely spent time in Boston unless he absolutely had to. Bird isn't some bright lights, big city guy, meanwhile Magic enjoyed everything about living in LA, going out picking up six or seven women a night with Dr. Buss and all those people. WTH would Bird go to LA for because he was friends with Magic? He WOULD NOT have gone to LA, period. They're rivalry never ended. There may not have been in hatred or dislike left in it, but those guys were competitors and playing together on an NBA team is not something they would've done.

As for LeBron not being able to win, it's BS to even try to use that cause Cleveland didn't even have a way of making that happen. You still also seem to miss the point that it's not about leaving Cleveland and going to Miami, it's about teaming up with three All-Stars cause he thinks it's the easiest way to win a title, we know this because he's said as much and the fact that he basically sabotaged the Cavs to do it.

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

This is the thing though man. You're just pulling an opinion out of your backside on Bird going to play with Magic if he had the opportunity. Bird would not have gone to LA because he HATED all the cameras and spotlight and all that other crap. Bird barely spent time in Boston unless he absolutely had to. Bird isn't some bright lights, big city guy, meanwhile Magic enjoyed everything about living in LA, going out picking up six or seven women a night with Dr. Buss and all those people. WTH would Bird go to LA for because he was friends with Magic? He WOULD NOT have gone to LA, period. They're rivalry never ended. There may not have been in hatred or dislike left in it, but those guys were competitors and playing together on an NBA team is not something they would've done.

As for LeBron not being able to win, it's BS to even try to use that cause Cleveland didn't even have a way of making that happen. You still also seem to miss the point that it's not about leaving Cleveland and going to Miami, it's about teaming up with three All-Stars cause he thinks it's the easiest way to win a title, we know this because he's said as much and the fact that he basically sabotaged the Cavs to do it.

Bosh and Wade also teamed up with each other...Wade gets a pass cuz he won with Shaq 4 years ago?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Bosh and Wade also teamed up with each other...Wade gets a pass cuz he won with Shaq 4 years ago?

Or maybe Bosh is a role player and not a Alpha dog/superstar despite what he'd like to believe and Shaq was in the decline of his career and traded to Miami. If Bron teams up with Bosh in Cleveland or New York or Jersey or Chicago he's fine as he's going somewhere that has the frame of the car all built but is missing it's engine and a car door. He goes to Miami with these two where the engine is there waiting for the rest of the car to go and he's now a car door.

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Or maybe Bosh is a role player and not a Alpha dog/superstar despite what he'd like to believe and Shaq was in the decline of his career and traded to Miami. If Bron teams up with Bosh in Cleveland or New York or Jersey or Chicago he's fine as he's going somewhere that has the frame of the car all built but is missing it's engine and a car door. He goes to Miami with these two where the engine is there waiting for the rest of the car to go and he's now a car door.

Shaq didnt start to decline until After the championship season....Technically in the Finals of the 2005/2006 season...

[wwharton]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Wait when else were Bird and Magic on an Olympic team together? They didn't play on the '76 team that I can remember, they were drafted in '79 and pros weren't allowed to play on the national teams until the Dream Team in '92? I missing something?

Yeah, don't know what I'm thinking about. I was recounting that documentary... it was either Jr. Olympics or maybe McDonalds All American game or something. I remember Magic talking about not wanting to respect Bird's game but that was the first time he realized he was actually pretty good.

I said IMO, I think Bird would have gone to LA with Magic if they had the opp to play with each other...This is 10 years into their career, the rivary was pretty much done, Bird was crippled and with magic was dealing with HIV, it was perfect...Its MY opinion, you may disagree but dont go and act like you statement is the final say because the situation has not happen to them...We just have to agree to disagree

Its only horrible because Magic/Bird >>>LBJ/Wade

Anyway how many young players ended up bang up at 25???

wear and tear > age...

This whole conversation is irrelevant to be honest...

With that said, If all 3 went to Cleveland people would still be crying and saying he needs those guys and his legacy is ruined...

Dude cant win...

No, you can't just pull the "we can agree to disagree" card on this one. I lived through the rivalry that basically saved the NBA and recently got a refresher and more detailed account of what went down. In short, I have more facts behind my opinion than the dream scenario you're trying to pull to support an argument that's already weak. Here's a decent enough summary of the HBO documentary I was talking about: http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index....ocumentar.html

I don't know how old you are but you clearly don't understand the significance of the Bird/Magic rivalry, it's connection to the Celtics/Lakers rivalry, the effect on everything to race relations and how it pretty much saved the NBA. It's a horrible, horrible example to use as comparison in any way to this team in Miami. Bird would've punched Magic in the face before joining his team. In fact, Magic would go to play with Bird before Bird would go to play with Magic, and that would never happen either.

Honestly, it's ok to just admit when you're wrong about something bc you're way off about this. You don't know "plenty about Bird" as you said if you even believe for a second he'd go play for the Lakers and/or to Magic's team at any point in his career.

Back on topic... the criticism is for Lebron. If Wade went to Cleveland he would've A)handled the move a lot more professionally even though Miami hasn't been supporting him since he was 12, B)caught less flack bc he's already been the clear MVP on a championship team, and C)caught less flack bc most considered James a better player anyway. Bosh could go wherever he wanted in all of this bc no one has any thought of him carrying a team to greatness anyway.

So yes, these 3 (or just James and Wade for that matter) teaming up anywhere besides Miami or LA would've made a lot more sense, and that includes Cleveland... and Cleveland probably would be the best case scenario for it to have happened and James preserving the legacy he's been trying to build.

[wwharton]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Shaq didnt start to decline until After the championship season....Technically in the Finals of the 2005/2006 season...

So to prove this point you're trying to make...

- Wade was a Free Agent so his signing with Miami was the same as Lebron's
- Bird would've signed with LA to play with Magic if he could have
- Shaq carried Wade to the championship

Anything else?

[slimm44]

Re: The future for the NBA?

I don't think anybody has a problem with what the team did, it's the players... and more specifically, Lebron.

Posts 1, 4, 12, and 16 on the first page of the thread differ, and I didn't go past that for the reference. There have been several posts stating that something in the next CBA should address what has happened here on a systemic level due to the increased possibility of teams intentionally tanking in order to follow this same business model.