The future for the NBA?

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Come on man, you've changed what you've said on this twice already and it's still not right. Magic would not have left to play with Bird... we can start with there being no way he leaves Hollywood to go anywhere, let alone Boston. Bird pretty much dedicated his entire career to being better than Magic and would barely talk to him until the commercial mentioned. You're just way off here. For a long time they probably legitimately hated each other, and even as friends, wanted nothing more than to outdue/beat each other.

The first thing you said was they were friends on the olympics... they played on the olympics BEFORE the Dream Team, and the Dream Team came at a time where Bird basically needed a cane. If that's your example then you'd be comparing them to the 3 in Boston now, not the 3 in Miami... there is no outrage for what happened in Boston.

There was a great HBO special on the Magic/Bird relationship. You should check it out. Either way, this is just a horrible example.

Im speaking of Bird going to LA not Magic going to Bos...

I not speaking on that time (im pretty sure they spoked on that team anyways) I said[B] [B]BECAME CLOSE on team USA that should have made it obvious to what I am talking about maybe I should have made myself clearer..Smh..

Im comparing a time frame...5-10 years

These guys been in the NBA for 7 years...

[Vast]

Re: The future for the NBA?

The NBA is officially an exhibition league. Is there really a difference between the Miami Heat farce and the Harlem Globetrotters at this point? Both are essentially exhibition teams that just want to do amazing feats and have fun, while the league as a whole is a joke - the inmates run the asylum.

If you want to run a successful sports league, NEVER give the players significant say in how the league is run and what happens on the business end. The bottom line is they are generally incapable of grasping broader concepts such as rules and restrictions that are in place for the good for the league as a whole. This is not meant as an indictment of their collective intelligence (although I wouldn't object to someone making that point), but rather their position as free agents attempting to maximize their own profit - which anyone would naturally do in their circumstance. If you want to know how the NFL became the juggernaut it is now on the American sporting landscape, you have only to look at how the league was molded and structured. Essentially, a small cadre of owners dictated the birth and growth of the league, restricted player input, and made/passed rules with very little outside discussion. It was (and is) a cartel; and it works.

The NBA badly needs a long lockout during which owners re-assert their ability to dictate the overall direction of the league. The overt collusion and hijacking of the league by essentially 3 players has shown that they've lost control, and the repugnant, unsightly, blase, and flat-out pedestrian day-to-day product they put out there is the result of that.

Great post. I have to agree with you. As excited as i am to actually see what these guys can do on the court together, this offseason demonstrated how little control the NBA has over these players.

If you're a superstar you can do pretty much anything you want.

There is now talk of Chris Paul, and Carmelo Anthony, joining Amare in NY. As a Knick fan i would LOVE for this to happen but, what does this do to the rest of the league??

It's not going to be good for business in the small markets thats for sure.

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

The NBA is officially an exhibition league. Is there really a difference between the Miami Heat farce and the Harlem Globetrotters at this point? Both are essentially exhibition teams that just want to do amazing feats and have fun, while the league as a whole is a joke - the inmates run the asylum.

If you want to run a successful sports league, NEVER give the players significant say in how the league is run and what happens on the business end. The bottom line is they are generally incapable of grasping broader concepts such as rules and restrictions that are in place for the good for the league as a whole. This is not meant as an indictment of their collective intelligence (although I wouldn't object to someone making that point), but rather their position as free agents attempting to maximize their own profit - which anyone would naturally do in their circumstance. If you want to know how the NFL became the juggernaut it is now on the American sporting landscape, you have only to look at how the league was molded and structured. Essentially, a small cadre of owners dictated the birth and growth of the league, restricted player input, and made/passed rules with very little outside discussion. It was (and is) a cartel; and it works.

1. The NFL became the juggernaut it is because football is the most popular sport. The second biggest sporting league is unarguably the worst run sporting organization in the country (Division 1A college football).

2. The players have power in the NBA because players mean so much more in basketball than they do in any other team sport. In 2008 the MVP of the NFL got hurt in the first game and the team won 11 games. That same year, Dwyane Wade, a good but hardly top player at that point missed half his season and the team won 15 games.

The fact that this thread exists over the free agency decisions of two players to go to an otherwise crappy team proves that. Short of eliminating trades and free agency players will always have more power.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

1. The NFL became the juggernaut it is because football is the most popular sport. The second biggest sporting league is unarguably the worst run sporting organization in the country (Division 1A college football).

2. The players have power in the NBA because players mean so much more in basketball than they do in any other team sport. In 2008 the MVP of the NFL got hurt in the first game and the team won 11 games. That same year, Dwyane Wade, a good but hardly top player at that point missed half his season and the team won 15 games.

The fact that this thread exists over the free agency decisions of two players to go to an otherwise crappy team proves that. Short of eliminating trades and free agency players will always have more power.

Did you seriously just say that Dwyane Wade wasn't a top player in 2008? You serious with this?

[23]

Re: The future for the NBA?

He was injured and people bashed the heck out of him because he wasnt doing what he was previously.

Thats why he came back in the olympics with a vengance

[pietasterp]

Re: The future for the NBA?

1. The NFL became the juggernaut it is because football is the most popular sport. The second biggest sporting league is unarguably the worst run sporting organization in the country (Division 1A college football).

2. The players have power in the NBA because players mean so much more in basketball than they do in any other team sport. In 2008 the MVP of the NFL got hurt in the first game and the team won 11 games. That same year, Dwyane Wade, a good but hardly top player at that point missed half his season and the team won 15 games.

The fact that this thread exists over the free agency decisions of two players to go to an otherwise crappy team proves that. Short of eliminating trades and free agency players will always have more power.

I'm suggesting that football became the most popular sport BECAUSE the league is run so well. We can argue chicken-and-egg all we want, but I don't think it's an accident that the most blatantly management-centered league is also the best at controlling their product. Perhaps the league happened to come of age when the sport was also reaching the peak of its popularity, but you have to give the founders and management at least some credit for its current dominance on the sports landscape.

Pointing out that Division IA college football (or "Bowl Subdivision" or whatever they call it now) is "unarguably the worst run sporting organization in the country" ignores the fact that it is not a sports league at all. Whatever analogy you were trying to make will be immediately undermined by the fact that it's a collection of universities and amateur (air-quotes here) athletes which are loosely affiliated and not at all an even distant facsimilie of a professional sports league.

While I don't agree that players in basketball mean more than players in other team sports, I do grant you that superstars in basketball can make a bigger immediate impact on teams than in many other sports (only because of numbers....5 guys per side). And I completely agree that what just happened is evidence of the players' primacy in the league. However, my whole point was that this is a bad thing, and just because players are important to a team does not mean that they should be allowed to dictate the business of the game (at least to the extent that they do in the NBA). You don't have to eliminate trades and free agency to attenuate player "power"; simply having a hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts would go a long way toward preventing what we just saw.

The bottom line is the owners are starting to see the light, and I fully expect there will be no 2011-2012 NBA season. Which, frankly, is the only option left if they have any hope of wresting control of their league back from the likes of LeBron and co.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

He was injured and people bashed the heck out of him because he wasnt doing what he was previously.

Thats why he came back in the olympics with a vengance

Yeah he was hurt but it wasn't ever to a point where Dwyane Wade wasn't considered one of the top players in the league. He said he was good, but not one of the top players. Who was better besides Kobe and Bron at that time? He was still two years removed from dominating the Finals.

[23]

Re: The future for the NBA?

He was bashed as someone who had fallen off

Im not sure what Cebby is talking about though, but Wade did have to re-prove himself afterwards.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

He was bashed as someone who had fallen off

Im not sure what Cebby is talking about though, but Wade did have to re-prove himself afterwards.

Yeah I'm not disputing that at all, he had to show that he still had it no doubt coming off the injuries that he did. I'm just saying that at no point since 2006 has Dwyane ever been out of the top 4, top 5 at least.

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Did you seriously just say that Dwyane Wade wasn't a top player in 2008? You serious with this?

Why wouldn't I be serious?

In 2008 Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Dirk, KG, Howard, Paul, Amare, and Nash were all better. Wade stepped up these last two years, but compared to Tom Brady who was the consensus best player in the NFL he wasn't at that point.

I'm just saying that at no point since 2006 has Dwyane ever been out of the top 4, top 5 at least.

That's just not true. Prior to 2009 he had never made first team All NBA or finished in the top 5 of MVP voting. In 2007 he finished 12th in MVP voting.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Dude in the two years after winning the championship he played 51 games both years and still averaged 27/4/7 in 06-07 and 24/4/6 in 07-08. Amar'e still wasn't Amar'e at that point either, but seriously with the list you named, you're saying he was at the very bottom of the top ten in the league? C'mon son. How's he supposed to finish with first team All-NBA when that's pretty much Kobe's spot every year?

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Yeah I'm not disputing that at all, he had to show that he still had it no doubt coming off the injuries that he did. I'm just saying that at no point since 2006 has Dwyane ever been out of the top 4, top 5 at least.

some people dont even consider CP3 as a top 5 player right now..That put things into perspective when thinking about 2008...

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Pointing out that Division IA college football (or "Bowl Subdivision" or whatever they call it now) is "unarguably the worst run sporting organization in the country" ignores the fact that it is not a sports league at all. Whatever analogy you were trying to make will be immediately undermined by the fact that it's a collection of universities and amateur (air-quotes here) athletes which are loosely affiliated and not at all an even distant facsimilie of a professional sports league.

How is it not a "sports league"?

Regardless of whatever league definitions you want to use, it's still the #2 football playing organization of teams and is more popular than the #1 baseball, basketball, hockey, or soccer league.

While I don't agree that players in basketball mean more than players in other team sports,

Then you're just being difficult.

You don't have to eliminate trades and free agency to attenuate player "power"; simply having a hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts would go a long way toward preventing what we just saw.

How?

They signed for under the salary cap. Non-guaranteed contracts would have made the entire things 50 times worse since every team would have been in on because they would have cut players.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

some people dont even consider CP3 as a top 5 player right now..That put things into perspective when thinking about 2008...

Probably cause people flip flop between he, Deron Williams and Steve Nash every year with who they think is top PG in the league. Didn't realize injuries took players out of the top players lists though. So if Kobe is hurt this season we can officially say he's not a top 5 player in the league anymore. Good to know.

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Probably cause people flip flop between he, Deron Williams and Steve Nash every year with who they think is top PG in the league. Didn't realize injuries took players out of the top players lists though. So if Kobe is hurt this season we can officially say he's not a top 5 player in the league anymore. Good to know.

Where have you been at for the last decade???

Its all about "what have you done for me lately"

Tom Brady was forgotten that year he was injured...