The future for the NBA?

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The future for the NBA?

That's the appeal for some people though.

Three A-class players and the two best players in the NBA, imo. Even when the Lakers were a dynasty, Kobe was a top 5 player, but you never made a case saying he was the best player in the NBA. You could make great arguments that either Lebron or Wade are the best and now they are on the same team. When you throw in how everything went down, it's pretty compelling. Hard to see how it's bad for the league.

I do think that Lebron leaving as early as he did, it did to some irrepairable damage between the relationship of fans and star players however.

check my early post and you're see that I don't think this dooms the league. I also don't think this has done anything bad for the relationship between fans and star players. Maybe THOSE stars, but not everyone else. Durant's bandwagon just lost a wheel because of how many people jumped on it, and Kobe's hate mail just got a lot lighter as a result of the nWo.

[tehova]

Re: The future for the NBA?

there's another bandwagon open with room too...

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Because every dynasty has always had at least two hall of fame players at the same time and even though people pine for the "golden era", when the exact same things that went down then happen now, everyone has a hissy fit.

Come on jmood?

Don't you remember when the league tanked in the 1980s when a 6 time MVP and GOAT candidate's team got the #1 pick and drafted the best PG of all time?

Wait a second...

[Court_vision]

Re: The future for the NBA?

The Wade and Bosh 1-2 punch was already in the discussion for ECF before they got Lebron, because they had the cash to fill that squad up with great roleplayers. People are bringing up all these examples that aren't related. When was the last time 3 of the top 10 scoring leaders all hooked up with one another in their primes via free agency? In their primes?

There are a lot of reasons people are thinking this is "unfair" or "lopsided." Please don't anyone pretend not to see why. Again, if you joined a fantasy draft league in a video game and saw that squad, most people would quit or call for a redraft. I don't think there has ever been three A class players on the same team. To clarify, by A-class, we mean top tier, top 3 in your position.

Exactly.

I can't believe all these "Kobe had Shaq, Mike had Pip" stuff..........

This is Jordan leaving the Bulls right after Detroit beat him...saying "no way I can get this done with only Pippen...I need TWO other guys.... to join the Utah Jazz.

PG Stockton
SG Jordan
SF Me
PF Karl Malone
C Anyone

And that team wins 8 straight titles.........but MJ never gets known as the GOAT because he had Stock and Malone and he ran away and screamed 'help'.

[jmood88]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Exactly.

I can't believe all these "Kobe had Shaq, Mike had Pip" stuff..........

This is Jordan leaving the Bulls right after Detroit beat him...saying "no way I can get this done with only Pippen...I need TWO other guys.... to join the Utah Jazz.

PG Stockton
SG Jordan
SF Me
PF Karl Malone
C Anyone

And that team wins 8 straight titles.........but MJ never gets known as the GOAT because he had Stock and Malone and he ran away and screamed 'help'.

What people are saying is that those guys were lucky enough to have hall of famers already there when they played, Lebron didn't have that at any point(other than an extremely old Shaq who missed half the year). Jordan played for 7 years before winning, like Lebron, but unlike Lebron he had a guy who grew enough to be someone who could kill teams that focused only on Jordan. Kobe had Shaq in his prime when he started winning championships. There was no one on the Cavs who was going to grow into an extremely good player and they had no money to sign or assets to trade for a guy like Shaq. That team was never going to win a championship.

[Court_vision]

Re: The future for the NBA?

What people are saying is that those guys were lucky enough to have hall of famers already there when they played, Lebron didn't have that at any point(other than an extremely old Shaq who missed half the year). Jordan played for 7 years before winning, like Lebron, but unlike Lebron he had a guy who grew enough to be someone who could kill teams that focused only on Jordan. Kobe had Shaq in his prime when he started winning championships. There was no one on the Cavs who was going to grow into an extremely good player and they had no money to sign or assets to trade for a guy like Shaq. That team was never going to win a championship.

I think you're missing the point on this one Mood. No one is disputing he couldn't win it with the Cavs.

People are saying that he had the option to go to a stacked Bulls team and say "bring it on" v Wade and Bosh, v Dwight Howard and co. v Kobe and LA.....i.e. go through the best teams and players to get his ring with a legit second guy in Rose and a stacked team.

He could have been "The Man" and had no excuses...and set up a golden era of rivalries with a series of teams having two legit stars.

Instead...he said "i want the easy option".

That's unprecedented for an MVP in this league. You guys can try and cover it up all you like, but 99% of people who follow basketball are all saying it right now and everyone deep down knows it's the truth. He took the soft option. Case over.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The future for the NBA?

What people are saying is that those guys were lucky enough to have hall of famers already there when they played, Lebron didn't have that at any point(other than an extremely old Shaq who missed half the year). Jordan played for 7 years before winning, like Lebron, but unlike Lebron he had a guy who grew enough to be someone who could kill teams that focused only on Jordan. Kobe had Shaq in his prime when he started winning championships. There was no one on the Cavs who was going to grow into an extremely good player and they had no money to sign or assets to trade for a guy like Shaq. That team was never going to win a championship.

Why do you keep focusing on what Cleveland didn't do or have? Okay, they didn't and him leaving that's fine, no one outside of Cleveland is saying he had to waste his career with the Cavs waiting for them to find him a number two like KG did in Minnesota. There were places where there isn't an alpha dog, number one option that he could have gone to and been better off than the terrible situation he had in Cleveland (as you like to keep pointing out) but instead he decided to skip building his brand with a new team and decided to build a group brand. He choose to go with the route he thought was the easiest to a championship.

[wheelman990]

Re: The future for the NBA?

I think if a small city cant keep a local life long raised hero......who can they keep?

This is nothing new. Its not about winning won for the team that drafts them. Its about going where they can live it large, roll out on the town, and live the high life. Basketball is just a "buisiness" they say. There real passion is the party seen and spending that dough.

Kobe may be the only one that is pationate about winning. I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but you have to give him that.

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

What people are saying is that those guys were lucky enough to have hall of famers already there when they played, Lebron didn't have that at any point(other than an extremely old Shaq who missed half the year). Jordan played for 7 years before winning, like Lebron, but unlike Lebron he had a guy who grew enough to be someone who could kill teams that focused only on Jordan. Kobe had Shaq in his prime when he started winning championships. There was no one on the Cavs who was going to grow into an extremely good player and they had no money to sign or assets to trade for a guy like Shaq. That team was never going to win a championship.

People also forget that maximizing potential is more important than winning with the worst possible roster that people seem to want to see.

For example, Kobe may have needed Gasol, Odom, Artest/Ariza, and Bynum, but he won 2 chips and lost in a third Finals and during that stretch went 10-1 against 50 win teams in the playoffs.

If Lebron wins 2 chips on the Heat he won't be considered the GOAT. However, if Lebron wins 6+ chips, is the Finals MVP four times, and they complete a fourpete, he will be in the conversation. Bill Russell played with like 5 Hall of Famers on the same team and nobody bashes him.

Plus Miami is awesome. I'm moving to Chicago next month and like the city, but if I had the same opportunity in Miami I'd be there last week.

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Exactly.

I can't believe all these "Kobe had Shaq, Mike had Pip" stuff..........

This is Jordan leaving the Bulls right after Detroit beat him...saying "no way I can get this done with only Pippen...I need TWO other guys.... to join the Utah Jazz.

PG Stockton
SG Jordan
SF Me
PF Karl Malone
C Anyone

And that team wins 8 straight titles.........but MJ never gets known as the GOAT because he had Stock and Malone and he ran away and screamed 'help'.

Sorry, he's not Jordan...

[Jukeman]

Re: The future for the NBA?

I think you're missing the point on this one Mood. No one is disputing he couldn't win it with the Cavs.

People are saying that he had the option to go to a stacked Bulls team and say "bring it on" v Wade and Bosh, v Dwight Howard and co. v Kobe and LA.....i.e. go through the best teams and players to get his ring with a legit second guy in Rose and a stacked team

.

He could have been "The Man" and had no excuses...and set up a golden era of rivalries with a series of teams having two legit stars.

Instead...he said "i want the easy option".

That's unprecedented for an MVP in this league. You guys can try and cover it up all you like, but 99% of people who follow basketball are all saying it right now and everyone deep down knows it's the truth. He took the soft option. Case over.

Does this apply for Wade and Bosh??? They were FA's too you know...

And wouldnt joining the Bulls be the exact same thing people are throwing fits about now????

[wwharton]

Re: The future for the NBA?

What people are saying is that those guys were lucky enough to have hall of famers already there when they played, Lebron didn't have that at any point(other than an extremely old Shaq who missed half the year). Jordan played for 7 years before winning, like Lebron, but unlike Lebron he had a guy who grew enough to be someone who could kill teams that focused only on Jordan. Kobe had Shaq in his prime when he started winning championships. There was no one on the Cavs who was going to grow into an extremely good player and they had no money to sign or assets to trade for a guy like Shaq. That team was never going to win a championship.

I agree with the others. An article (wish I had a link) compared it to MJ leaving the Bulls to go play with Isaiah on the Pistons bc he didn't think the Bulls would ever be able to beat them. That's how I see it. But I actually will go a step further and say the Cavs should be considered too. Before the Bulls started winning championships, people weren't calling Pippen a HOFer... he hadn't developed his game to that level. I listed Jamison and Mo's stats and the team compared to those Bulls teams in another thread. We can't say that neither of them, Hickson or anyone else couldn't become that 2nd option. Hell they almost traded for Amare this year, and people feel like he would've been the answer. Who's to say they couldn't pull something else off in the middle of next season? We'll never know bc LBJ tucked tail and ran away.

I think if a small city cant keep a local life long raised hero......who can they keep?

This is nothing new. Its not about winning won for the team that drafts them. Its about going where they can live it large, roll out on the town, and live the high life. Basketball is just a "buisiness" they say. There real passion is the party seen and spending that dough.

Kobe may be the only one that is pationate about winning. I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but you have to give him that.

I think you have to include Wade in there too, and that's the main reason the Heat will always be his team. If this team succeeds it'll be bc he made sure everyone kept focus. I can promise you won't see any stupid pregame routines.

[wwharton]

Re: The future for the NBA?

People also forget that maximizing potential is more important than winning with the worst possible roster that people seem to want to see.

For example, Kobe may have needed Gasol, Odom, Artest/Ariza, and Bynum, but he won 2 chips and lost in a third Finals and during that stretch went 10-1 against 50 win teams in the playoffs.

If Lebron wins 2 chips on the Heat he won't be considered the GOAT. However, if Lebron wins 6+ chips, is the Finals MVP four times, and they complete a fourpete, he will be in the conversation. Bill Russell played with like 5 Hall of Famers on the same team and nobody bashes him.

Plus Miami is awesome. I'm moving to Chicago next month and like the city, but if I had the same opportunity in Miami I'd be there last week.

Not necessarily true. I seriously believe if they win a championship next year, that'll be Wade's Finals MVP award. Depending on how quickly Wade fades moving forward, LBJ may pass him but if Wade's fading then they won't be as likely to keep winning either. I need proof that Lebron is more than the greatest stats stuffer we've ever seen.

[Cebby]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Not necessarily true. I seriously believe if they win a championship next year, that'll be Wade's Finals MVP award. Depending on how quickly Wade fades moving forward, LBJ may pass him but if Wade's fading then they won't be as likely to keep winning either. I need proof that Lebron is more than the greatest stats stuffer we've ever seen.

Nobody knows how this team will work.

The media will want to get Lebron a Finals MVP bad. Hate sells during the offseason. Hype sells during the season.

If the Heat play the Lakers during the Finals, Kobe vs Lebron will be drilled into your head in ways that 2009 couldn't dream of.

[jmood88]

Re: The future for the NBA?

Why do you keep focusing on what Cleveland didn't do or have? Okay, they didn't and him leaving that's fine, no one outside of Cleveland is saying he had to waste his career with the Cavs waiting for them to find him a number two like KG did in Minnesota. There were places where there isn't an alpha dog, number one option that he could have gone to and been better off than the terrible situation he had in Cleveland (as you like to keep pointing out) but instead he decided to skip building his brand with a new team and decided to build a group brand. He choose to go with the route he thought was the easiest to a championship.

I keep focusing on it because you can't judge someone's situation the same as someone else's if you don't put everything out there. He was there for 7 years. He didn't leave after 3 or 4, 7 years is more than enough time to see if something is or isn't going to work.