Colangelo slams Bosh

[Cebby]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Can we drop this argument already seriously. They didn't give up anything. Giving up a few million dollars on your deal that you weren't going to see after taxes anyway to play in a state with no taxes and the single biggest party atmosphere in the US is not some great sacrifice for the good of the game/team.

They gave up money to win.

Thus, it's not all about money as you implied earlier.

If you wanna give up the glory and sacrifice and all this other crap, go to Cleveland and take the same pay cuts, or Toronto or New Jersey or some town no one really WANTS to play in like Memphis or something. That's a sacrifice.

They weren't going to win in those places.

They gave up money and the ability to be the "GOAT" in Lebron's case to win championships.

[wwharton]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

I agree that it wouldn't make sense to question your star player publicly, and that the truth remains true even after the fact, it's just that, and again I say this is just for me because I'm sure others disagree, these comments don't hold any water with me for the simple fact that they would never have been made if the players stayed. If the comments were so true and they feel so strongly about this, the comments should have been made when the act was being done, as opposed to after the players have left.

To me this is like in a relationship when one party cheats and the other finds out about it. If it's truly that big of a deal, the cheater should have been dealt with at the time of their cheating, either by dumping them or talking to them. If they had such a big problem with Bosh and LeBron's quitting, they should've talked to them at the time, or never have attempted to resign them. All they are doing now is trying to save face.

Your example explains what you're asking. Maybe cheating is your "deal breaker" so lets say for you it's something just short of cheating... or we stick with cheating since many do continue in relationships after being cheated on. Basically, you're not happy but you hope and assume that the person will change, grow and learn from what you believe they did wrong. If that person then dumped you, you're pissed that you gave them another chance, that they not only didn't grow but they're sticking it to you even worse.

It's pretty clear here to me. Both these owners SHOULD HAVE done a better job of keeping these players' hands out of the cookie jar. They didn't for fear of losing them before they reached their potential and/or brought their city a championship. Anyone who says they don't have friends, family, ex girlfriends, employees, etc. that have done things they didn't like but overlooked (or acted immature in ways you felt it'd be better to let them grow out of than cut them off completely or go off on them) then you're lying. And if overlooking these things ended up biting you in the *** in the end, you're lying if you say you wouldn't be that much more pissed about it. That's all that's going on here.

2. Wade, Lebron, and Bosh clearly didn't care about money over winning. They made the most unselfish move in sports history giving up money and individual glory in their primes to win.

With no tax they're making close to what they would've made taking a max anywhere else AND both LBJ and Bosh ended up in sign and trades so it might be exactly the same (not to mention a mil or so under the table). I don't know what individual glory you're talking about bc everyone that's supported the move to Miami says it was necessary bc LBJ (and Bosh) wouldn't get the glory in Cleveland.

[pietasterp]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

They gave up money to win.

Thus, it's not all about money as you implied earlier.



They weren't going to win in those places.

They gave up money and the ability to be the "GOAT" in Lebron's case to win championships.

Not an appreciable amount. They took $110 million instead of $120 million. I'd believe that argument if they took the league minimum instead of $100 mil, but as someone else pointed out, in a tax-free environment they basically took no less at all. I think any implication that these guys sacrificed salary for winning is a very misguided read of the situation...

[Cebby]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

With no tax they're making close to what they would've made taking a max anywhere else AND both LBJ and Bosh ended up in sign and trades so it might be exactly the same (not to mention a mil or so under the table). I don't know what individual glory you're talking about bc everyone that's supported the move to Miami says it was necessary bc LBJ (and Bosh) wouldn't get the glory in Cleveland.

The individual glory would be Lebron being considered "the GOAT" or Bosh winning as "the man". They won't be doing that, and they gave that up to win.

Not an appreciable amount. They took $110 million instead of $120 million. I'd believe that argument if they took the league minimum instead of $100 mil, but as someone else pointed out, in a tax-free environment they basically took no less at all. I think any implication that these guys sacrificed salary for winning is a very misguided read of the situation...

They gave up dollars so that their team could sign Mike Miller and Haslem.

They could have signed for the max in Miami but decided not to.

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

They could have signed for the max in Miami but decided not to.

Yeah, they could of, but they aren't stupid. They knew if they wanted any remote chance of contending this season, they couldn't have a roster filled with D-Leaguer's. With no tax there are essentially making the same amount they would and with sign and trades, they are probably making more without handcuffing Miami with the full max deals. It's about money, get real.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

They gave up money to win.

Thus, it's not all about money as you implied earlier.



They weren't going to win in those places.

They gave up money and the ability to be the "GOAT" in Lebron's case to win championships.

Number one, I didn't imply that it was about the money, I think you're thinking of Starlin, not me. Number two the only person you can say wasn't going to win where they were was Bosh. Bron could have won the series against Boston if he wasn't already thinking about how many women would be lined up on South Beach helping him latherup his calf muscles on the beach. They were in the ECF just two years ago and had a legit shot at getting back there at least this year to say he wasn't going to win there is a joke.

Finally again, they didn't give up any money. Even if they did literally give up money. What is the few million they supposedly left on the table for these guys who'll make that up and then some in endorsements they currently have and will get for winning and you know that tax free thing? Making a sacrifice is not giving up a max level contract where you'll get about 11-12 million of that after taxes and lawyer/agent fees to take a contract with a team where you don't have state taxes and see about 11-12 million of your 14.5 million dollars after lawyer/agent fees.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Your example explains what you're asking. Maybe cheating is your "deal breaker" so lets say for you it's something just short of cheating... or we stick with cheating since many do continue in relationships after being cheated on. Basically, you're not happy but you hope and assume that the person will change, grow and learn from what you believe they did wrong. If that person then dumped you, you're pissed that you gave them another chance, that they not only didn't grow but they're sticking it to you even worse.

It's pretty clear here to me. Both these owners SHOULD HAVE done a better job of keeping these players' hands out of the cookie jar. They didn't for fear of losing them before they reached their potential and/or brought their city a championship. Anyone who says they don't have friends, family, ex girlfriends, employees, etc. that have done things they didn't like but overlooked (or acted immature in ways you felt it'd be better to let them grow out of than cut them off completely or go off on them) then you're lying. And if overlooking these things ended up biting you in the *** in the end, you're lying if you say you wouldn't be that much more pissed about it. That's all that's going on here.

The trouble with this comparison (and I know you aren't the one who made the distinction initially, so I'm not jumping on you for it or anything...I'm just quoting for reference to the general premise) is that I am not an executive of a major company that is making such comments/thoughts public, and my family are not my former employees. I think that, in general, any comparisons to personal relationships in these situations is shortsighted (or, in some cases, even somewhat delusional-i.e. the fan to player relationship).

As for the topic in general:

I think the issue is (for me anyway...I won't speak for others) is that if fans, the media, etc are going to ramble on and on about player loyalty, professionalism, class, etc then it's more than a little hypocritical to justify what these owners are doing. If anything, people at the top should be held to a HIGHER standard of professionalism.

I also don't believe for a second that either of these guys would have had the guts to spew such nonsense if their respective players would have left the fans on better terms. They can get away with it because fans are angry and dramatic and will get all "rah rah" behind the notion of betrayal.

So while the truth is always true no matter the context or timing, the pretense is a lie and that is what I take issue with.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Yeah, they could of, but they aren't stupid. They knew if they wanted any remote chance of contending this season, they couldn't have a roster filled with D-Leaguer's. With no tax there are essentially making the same amount they would and with sign and trades, they are probably making more. It's about money, get real.

Wait...you just said they left money on the table to have a better chance of contending and then close with "it's about money, get real." Now, I'm not claiming they did anything alturistic or noble all in the name of victory or anything , but you seem to be countering your own point on this.

While I don't think it was strictly about winning, I don't think it was about money at all. I'm sure if the money was bad they would have looked elsewhere, but I think they simply knew they would be paid well anywhere they chose and simply wanted to play-and win-with each other. No more, no less.

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Did you not read what I said?

Maybe you need to re-read. They only let Miami off the hook with sign and trades but they are still getting their money, and tax free. Like I said, it's about money.

[Cebby]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Yeah, they could of, but they aren't stupid. They knew if they wanted any remote chance of contending this season, they couldn't have a roster filled with D-Leaguer's. With no tax there are essentially making the same amount they would and with sign and trades, they are probably making more. It's about money, get real.

So they took less money because they wanted more money?

This makes absolutely no sense. If it was all about money, they would have signed for the max in Miami with no income taxes.

Bron could have won the series against Boston if he wasn't already thinking about how many women would be lined up on South Beach helping him latherup his calf muscles on the beach.

Or if his team wasn't awful.

He averaged 27 points 9.5 rebounds 7 assists and 2 steals

Finally again, they didn't give up any money. Even if they did literally give up money.

Again, this is completely illogical.

They didn't give up their fortunes, but 10 million dollars is 10 million dollars.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Did you not read what I said?

Maybe you need to re-read. They only let Miami off the hook with sign and trades but they are still getting their money, and tax free. Like I said, it's about money.

I read just fine, but thank you.

Someone said they could have gotten max, but did not. You responded with "Yeah, they could of, but they aren't stupid. They knew if they wanted any remote chance of contending this season, they couldn't have a roster filled with D-Leaguer's." You then moved to your point about it being about money-which the previous statement contradicts.
So you're wording was contradictory to your point. I'm not looking to argue though, so I'll leave the rest of your conjecture alone.

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

So they took less money because they wanted more money?

This makes absolutely no sense. If it was all about money, they would have signed for the max in Miami with no income taxes.



Or if his team wasn't awful.

He averaged 27 points 9.5 rebounds 7 assists and 2 steals



Again, this is completely illogical.

They didn't give up their fortunes, but 10 million dollars is 10 million dollars.

Ok, making 110 million with no tax, is just about the same if not more than 120 taxed. In Cleveland there would not only be the state tax of 6% but also a city tax of 2%, meaning that 120 million turns into just around the same amount of money. That is what he means. So they didn't take any less than they would of made anyway. So in business and basketball sense, they still got their cash and gave the Heat some flexibility instead of handcuffing them this off-season.

[HotGarbage]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

Boy,I love these owners and gms who don't seem to have a problem with these guys quitting when they're on their roster,but the moment they leave town.


If you're not gonna do anything about it when you're signing their paycheck,don't start whining about it when they haul ***.

[Brankles]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

I disagree with this article.

Rashard Lewis is the highest paid 3rd (or 4th) option in NBA history.

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Colangelo slams Bosh

I read just fine, but thank you.

Someone said they could have gotten max, but did not. You responded with "Yeah, they could of, but they aren't stupid. They knew if they wanted any remote chance of contending this season, they couldn't have a roster filled with D-Leaguer's." You then moved to your point about it being about money-which the previous statement contradicts.
So you're wording was contradictory to your point. I'm not looking to argue though, so I'll leave the rest of your conjecture alone.

Maybe I wasn't the clearest when explaining. But basically what I meant was don't be fooled by their honorable jesture to take less money when essentially they are still getting a max deal and not limiting the Heat to make more moves.